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i'm sorry

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but i don't want to be an emperor i

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don't want to rule or conquer anyone

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i should like to help everyone if

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possible we all want to help one another

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human beings are like that we want to

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live by each other's happiness not by

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each other's misery

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we don't want to hate and despise one

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another in this world there's room for

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everyone and the good earth is rich

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and can provide for everyone the way of

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life can be free and beautiful

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but we have lost the way greed has

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poisoned men's souls

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so if you are materialistically focused

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and you're disconnected

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from the spiritual compassionate part

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we can all see that and point at that

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and go

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oh how terrible but when we see

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the atheist heather berg usc

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disconnect we're unable to do

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the same and say well your compassion

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is disconnected from the deeper

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spiritual reality

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cries out for universal brotherhood for

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the unity of us all

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even now my voice is reaching millions

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throughout the world

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millions of despairing men women and

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little children

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victims of a system that makes men

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torture and imprison innocent people

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ask ourselves consistently am i evil

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it's not it's almost like the opposite

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of if you can ask yourself if you're

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crazy then you're not crazy

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if you can ask yourself if you're evil

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then you actually

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do have the potential to become evil

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because if you never ask

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then you're just in this way of

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compulsive sleepwalking forces like

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everybody else and

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you know nothing you do is really evil

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but also nothing you do is really good

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like you're not really acting out of

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intention at all so you're not really

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able to extend

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love and compassion for real in an

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intentional purposeful and meaningful

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way to people

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and that is the gift of the possibility

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of evil to us that's the gift of free

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will to us

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is that the separation the ability to do

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evil

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means that if we look at that we ask

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ourselves that then we can do good in

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the world

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i have an interview coming up in a

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minute with conor habib

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and you just heard both of us talking

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over the very great

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and famous charlie chaplin clip from the

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great

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dictator and while i almost feel like we

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can't possibly do justice to

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a clip like that i did want to set the

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stage for a discussion that i feel like

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has been going

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on in the background here on skeptico

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for a while

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and that is the link or maybe better

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said the disconnect

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between spirituality and

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progressive social thinking i mean when

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you listen to charlie chaplin

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who the heck disagrees with any of that

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but at the same time does anything

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charlie chaplin is saying there does any

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of that make any sense

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if there isn't a larger spiritual

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reality

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so in this interview we talk about that

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it takes us a little while to get there

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there's a lot of other things that

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connor and i talk about it was a great

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chat a really interesting chat and i

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appreciate having the opportunity to

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talk to connor since i've known him for

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quite some time and he's never been

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on skeptico hey one other note

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i do so appreciate everyone connecting

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with me

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it's been awesome if you haven't heard i

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guess i'm putting out the word there

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that

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i'm here and i'd love to hear from you

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and while i'm at it i guess i'd also put

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out the word that

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let your friends know about skeptico i

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know many of you have but they probably

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forgot

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i'd love to grow this community only

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as much as it's supposed to grow so

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as i just said that i take that back

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don't tell

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anyone about skeptico that isn't

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supposed to know about it

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but if you know someone who is supposed

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to know about it who's supposed to come

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in here and join our dialogue

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please let them know okay

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[Music]

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today we welcome connor habib to

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skeptico

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connor is an author lecturer and host of

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against everyone with connor habib which

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you will find

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on youtube and also he has a download of

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it in podcast form so

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connor welcome to skeptico thanks for

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joining me

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thanks alex um i should correct you and

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you should start over because

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it's mostly a podcast now you can only

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get the youtube if you

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are a patreon patron i just changed that

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like a week ago

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do you want to start and start that over

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again no i'm not gonna

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because it's how you sucker people in

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i've gone

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you have the ten minutes there and then

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you say hey oh

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yeah okay good all right damn it i

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should have i shouldn't have stopped you

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you know what you're doing you're better

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at that part than i am all right

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i know man we can talk a little bit

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about that it's it's uh

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you get some really good guests on there

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and it's pretty amazing and i was on

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there you were so nice to have me on

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there and i really enjoyed it i think we

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had a

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great conversation you are really

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quite good at asking these questions and

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bringing these dialogues in places where

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a lot of people don't go and that's why

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i was so excited to have you on but i

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had to say you know

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when we set this up i could have sworn

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that you had been on skeptica before

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because we've known each other for a

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long time and we've had all these great

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conversations

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and then i checked and you hadn't and i

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felt like

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wow what am i doing how come i haven't

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come on before

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yeah well i'm glad you noticed that

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discrepancy

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because i've been listening to show i

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mean i probably listen almost every

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episode at this point which

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by now is a lot and i've been listening

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to it for years and years and

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our first conversation was you know when

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i had this sort of

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you know failed attempt to start a

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podcast years ago

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and i was a big skeptical fan i

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interviewed you and we just talked about

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we talked about science we talked a lot

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about

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richard dawkins it seems things have

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come a long way since

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the content of that conversation and

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it seems like our concerns are not the

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same well i mean we still are concerned

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about that but we've kind of moved past

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those

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that kind of focus you know isn't that i

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mean i do have to look back every now

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and then and say

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wow you know maybe we all have

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collectively

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accomplished something in terms of

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moving the ball

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forward a little bit in that you know it

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just came up again today when uh

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and not today but recently someone

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sent me a link to bernardo castro

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a friend of the show a great writer and

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he was kind of railing against some

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skeptics

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and it just didn't uh bernardo was

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totally in the right

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and it was just irresponsible what had

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been done but you know it didn't have

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this

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quite the same teeth to it on either

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side i mean it was just so clearly that

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obvious that the skeptics had no place

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to stand

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they weren't getting any traction with

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their

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throne and uh it it just

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did feel like wow that that thing is

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over

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yeah i mean i you know sometimes i

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wonder if

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is it over or are we just not paying

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attention to it but it certainly is

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not looming as large in the cultural

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conversation in an urgent way anymore

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that is for sure

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and i don't know exactly why i mean

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well i do know why for some reasons but

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i don't know the total reason why and

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that'd be interesting to sort of

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think about because i think people still

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do have

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majorly dismissive attitudes towards

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spirituality and the paranormal

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and the occult and consciousness that's

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not

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locked into the brain or created by the

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brain and all that i think

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a lot of people are very still

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dismissive of that but it's

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not like the urgency of that concern has

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sort of subsided

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in some way and there's been a little

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more wiggle room i would say

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for sure to talk about these things now

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maybe not

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quite as much in a university setting or

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um you know if you went to some sort of

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progressive political

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play but i still like i do think like

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something shifted and you you definitely

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you definitely assisted that i mean

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honestly i'm not just saying this to

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to praise you at the start of your

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episode um before we get into it but

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it's like giving your boss a drink

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before the meeting

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but i do think that like you know having

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such an intense

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document of how near-death experiences

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do and do not work that's just available

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to the public and

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it's a great service even though you've

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moved beyond that

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um on the content of this show i think

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just having that document is really

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important because you just point people

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to it now

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you know well that's that's nice of you

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to say and

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i i appreciate it i'd circle back to

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what you said

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earlier about you know what the

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difference is because i think it's kind

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of a

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digression conversation to have here

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before we get into the meat of what

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we're going to talk about

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with you and i but the way that

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i think i noticed the shift has occurred

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is those people have kind of switched

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places

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with us in a little bit in that there's

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almost a little bit of uh reluctance or

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trepidation on their part

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to speak of you know that

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uh kind of well i just i'm proud to be

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an atheist biological robot meaningless

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universe person

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you know they're kind of like looking

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around like can i really say this or am

286
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i going to be

287
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the one who looks like i'm the odd

288
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person out i think that's

289
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really what i notice is that there's a

290
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different

291
00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:23,360
tone to where they say how they say it

292
00:10:26,550 --> 00:10:24,720
that's interesting i'll have to think

293
00:10:29,829 --> 00:10:26,560
about that more for sure because

294
00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:29,839
i i think that people are i think you're

295
00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:31,600
right like they're not forthcoming

296
00:10:34,630 --> 00:10:34,320
in saying it like that like it's not we

297
00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:34,640
don't

298
00:10:37,829 --> 00:10:36,160
live in this like daniel dennett

299
00:10:41,350 --> 00:10:37,839
playground anymore

300
00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:41,360
but i do think when when others bring up

301
00:10:45,430 --> 00:10:42,640
spirituality

302
00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:45,440
or that the mind is not equal brain

303
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,000
they're still

304
00:10:49,829 --> 00:10:48,560
pretty quickly quick to be vocal about

305
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:49,839
dismissing it

306
00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:51,519
so they might not volunteer it but

307
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:52,800
they're still right there to shut you

308
00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:53,360
down

309
00:10:57,269 --> 00:10:55,279
you bring it up which is a different

310
00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:57,279
problem i think you know

311
00:11:01,030 --> 00:10:59,519
well in a way that kind of leads into

312
00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:01,040
the first thing i want to talk to you

313
00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:01,920
about because

314
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:04,560
we just spoke a couple weeks ago and i

315
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:06,160
was really excited to hear

316
00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:09,519
about this new journey that you're

317
00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:12,800
launching into in terms of getting a phd

318
00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:16,160
in a very very interesting

319
00:11:19,509 --> 00:11:18,880
thesis area that is so right up your

320
00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:19,519
alley

321
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:21,760
and i have to say before this talk you

322
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:22,720
had to kind of

323
00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:24,160
make sure that i wasn't going to release

324
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:25,920
this beforehand because this is like

325
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:29,440
breaking news

326
00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:31,920
and they're kind of herbivored out there

327
00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:32,800
so

328
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:35,040
before we even get into that and talk

329
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:35,839
about

330
00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:39,120
your soon to be phd thesis

331
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:40,880
and the new venture that you're getting

332
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:42,880
into let me back

333
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:46,000
up tell folks a little bit about

334
00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:50,399
who is connor habib yeah okay

335
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:53,600
so um gosh there's uh there's a lot

336
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:54,880
there because i feel like i've lived a

337
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:55,680
lot of different

338
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:59,360
lives um some of them uh clumsier than

339
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,000
others

340
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:03,040
but i fee so uh yeah so i host this

341
00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:04,720
podcast against everyone conor b that's

342
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:06,639
my main thing right now and that came

343
00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:08,880
out of wanting to have

344
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:12,240
um serious discussions

345
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:14,639
about complex spiritual and

346
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:16,959
philosophical and political ideas

347
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:18,880
because those are often shut down when

348
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:20,399
they start getting deep

349
00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:21,920
it's like you talk about on your show

350
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,360
where you say well there's the level one

351
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,800
discussion the level two discussion

352
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:27,120
level three the level three almost never

353
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:29,200
happens because people get like stuck in

354
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:30,399
the level one and

355
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:32,000
i always wanted to have those level

356
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:33,600
three discussions but i wanna share them

357
00:12:37,509 --> 00:12:35,600
with people in like an engaging

358
00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:37,519
way that was accessible so it wasn't

359
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:39,600
also like just keeping people out

360
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:41,040
and it was inspiring them to have their

361
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:42,639
own conversations because i hate small

362
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:43,279
talk

363
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:45,519
it drives me crazy i mean obviously i

364
00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:46,800
can do it and i do it

365
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:49,040
a little bit here and there but i want

366
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:51,200
to get into the meat of things you know

367
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:52,399
and so

368
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:55,440
um so that's you know

369
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:57,200
that's my sort of main focus right now

370
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:59,279
is having this show which i have

371
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:00,959
journal i mean some of the i guess the

372
00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:02,480
shared guest really would be

373
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,880
you and gordon white have both been on

374
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:06,000
the show

375
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,519
um and i haven't had really a lot of

376
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:08,880
scientists yet but i have political

377
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:09,760
journalists

378
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:12,480
writers artists comedians musicians all

379
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:13,360
that and

380
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:16,959
i think um so for for me it's about

381
00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:20,320
exploring ideas now that came out of

382
00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:23,120
uh like that was my that's my most

383
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:23,600
recent

384
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:26,639
venture that's emerging out of having

385
00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:30,000
been a sex workers rights advocate

386
00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:32,160
and activist for 10 years and also

387
00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:34,160
having been a porn performer for

388
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:37,200
almost 10 years and all those things

389
00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:38,240
sort of

390
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:42,480
mesh together for me because um

391
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:44,800
i i've done this thing my whole life

392
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:47,120
where i've tried to be an outsider to

393
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:48,480
the community that

394
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:50,800
i entered into in a way because i think

395
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:52,079
it's useful so

396
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:54,880
you know i went to school for grad

397
00:13:58,629 --> 00:13:55,600
school

398
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:58,639
for um creative writing and i was also

399
00:14:01,430 --> 00:13:59,839
studying the sciences so i was in the

400
00:14:01,990 --> 00:14:01,440
humanities by studying organismic and

401
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:02,000
evolutionary

402
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,600
biology with lynn margulies at

403
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,279
university of massachusetts

404
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:06,959
so humanities and sciences but then i

405
00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:08,720
was also a very spiritual person really

406
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:09,360
getting

407
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,839
deeply into the work of rudolf steiner

408
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:13,199
particularly who's still sort of my

409
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,320
headquarters and

410
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:16,240
i know just came up on your mark booth

411
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:17,839
episode quite a bit

412
00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:21,360
um and then from there um

413
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:23,839
also then started doing porn and sex

414
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:24,880
work so

415
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:26,480
humanities but in the sciences in the

416
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:27,839
sciences but in spirituality and

417
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:29,279
spirituality but

418
00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:31,839
doing sex work and so all that sort of

419
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:34,320
outsiderness has created a weird

420
00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:37,519
web of connection which with i think it

421
00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:39,120
can feel lonely and frustrating

422
00:14:42,790 --> 00:14:40,639
sometimes but also

423
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:42,800
has allowed me to sort of see

424
00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:44,320
connections between things that maybe

425
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:45,440
other people don't

426
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:48,480
get to see sometimes or at least lets me

427
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:50,240
sort of try out ideas

428
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:52,160
publicly through my life that i think

429
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:54,560
other people

430
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:56,399
you know either haven't or haven't

431
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:57,760
really thought of before

432
00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:00,959
and uh i mean not that i'm i feel like i

433
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:02,000
sound like i'm

434
00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:03,920
like bragging or something but i think

435
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:06,079
it's just true about my life it's an

436
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:06,880
unusual

437
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:10,399
agree

438
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:12,079
i think you bring an interesting

439
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:13,760
perspective on that and

440
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:16,399
i would have to add to the part about

441
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:17,760
the episodes you've done

442
00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:20,639
of against everyone one thing i really

443
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,519
appreciate

444
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,519
about what you you do and i love the way

445
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:25,120
you said it you know it's like

446
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:27,279
you hate small talk and i can still

447
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:28,639
relate to that i mean

448
00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:31,360
for my whole life i was like why are

449
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:31,920
people

450
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:34,560
talking about such meaningless stupid

451
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,279
things

452
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:37,279
it's like remember when you were a kid

453
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:38,560
you know and people were like

454
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,440
advising you you know you never talk

455
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:43,519
about religion or politics

456
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,680
right why the [\h__\h] not isn't that a hit

457
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:50,480
spirituality isn't that fundamentally

458
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:51,279
like the most

459
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,720
we all know that's the most important

460
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:54,000
question however we feel about it

461
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:56,320
whether we're atheists or whether we're

462
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:58,399
the most orthodox fundamentalist

463
00:16:02,550 --> 00:15:59,920
whatever you know isn't that that

464
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:02,560
and then politics or you know however

465
00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:03,920
you want to

466
00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:05,839
position that in your head in terms of

467
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:08,240
deep state conspiracy or republican

468
00:16:11,110 --> 00:16:08,959
democrat

469
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,120
it's the forces that are most present

470
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:13,360
and pressing on you on your life you

471
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:14,399
know like that's so

472
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,480
telling that that would be the advice at

473
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,240
least that i got and i'm sure

474
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:20,880
you being a kid in pennsylvania with uh

475
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:21,600
kind of

476
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:23,759
an adult man like so when i went to grad

477
00:16:26,949 --> 00:16:25,680
school you know this is the place where

478
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:26,959
it's supposed to be

479
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,639
where people really go to learn and

480
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:30,160
investigate questions about

481
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:33,360
culture and i remember like twice i

482
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:36,639
got sort of gasps and

483
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:39,199
like audible gas from the other students

484
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:39,839
in in

485
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:41,759
class and one was when i said something

486
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:43,839
about sex and another was when i said

487
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:45,360
something about god

488
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:47,279
and without going into all the details

489
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:49,440
of that story i noticed i was like

490
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:50,959
this is really interesting that these

491
00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:52,800
two things are off the table

492
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:54,880
but i know that all the grad students

493
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:56,959
for sure are thinking about sex all the

494
00:17:00,870 --> 00:16:58,079
time

495
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:00,880
and i know and i know that also like god

496
00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:02,480
and religion has had a role in their

497
00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:05,039
lives so what's the problem here we're

498
00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:06,480
not even allowed to really

499
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:09,839
discuss it or go into it at all and

500
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,160
i think that you know what you pulled on

501
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:14,400
too is like politics and also money

502
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:17,760
you know these taboos like you know

503
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:19,760
as you point out again and again like

504
00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:21,360
the taboos are constructed

505
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:23,679
by our culture and people and

506
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:25,120
institutions and

507
00:17:28,870 --> 00:17:27,760
forces of power in one way or another

508
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:28,880
over time

509
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:32,400
and so those are there for a reason

510
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:35,120
it's not just some incidental thing like

511
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:36,640
don't talk about politics

512
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,760
what you know like don't talk about sex

513
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:41,280
don't talk about and so that's part of

514
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:42,960
why i want to have those conversations

515
00:17:45,669 --> 00:17:43,760
is like

516
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:45,679
it's sort of it's sort of a counter you

517
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:47,600
know i call the counter cultural podcast

518
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:49,039
but it's really sort of a

519
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:51,520
counter power podcast in some way it's

520
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:53,280
like maybe if we talk about these things

521
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:54,320
out loud and

522
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:56,080
really go into them it'll inspire other

523
00:17:58,630 --> 00:17:57,840
people to do that instead of just being

524
00:18:00,150 --> 00:17:58,640
like

525
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:00,160
oh you know i don't really think deeply

526
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,160
about things or that's depressing or

527
00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:03,600
that's not polite or

528
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:05,919
you know whatever way they use to evade

529
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:07,600
it and keep in lockstep with the kinds

530
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:08,880
of conversations

531
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:10,559
people and institutions in power want us

532
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:12,000
to be having which are about

533
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:15,360
[\h__\h] yeah that's great and i just

534
00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:15,840
really

535
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:18,880
the way you do tackle

536
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:20,960
some of this stuff and you know when i

537
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:22,640
first encountered

538
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:24,320
you and we were just kind of talking

539
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:26,080
like like you said you interviewed me

540
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:27,120
about

541
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:29,679
skeptico and it was a really interesting

542
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,640
interview you were

543
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:32,160
on your game you're talking about all

544
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:34,160
the right stuff and then you know you

545
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:35,520
kind of lay this whole

546
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:38,480
hey i'm interested in you know the sex

547
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:39,200
angle and

548
00:18:46,390 --> 00:18:42,880
by the way i'm a gay porn star

549
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:46,400
and it's like that is so jarring

550
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:48,720
and it was jarring to me too i can't

551
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:50,640
like pretend it wasn't

552
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:53,679
but what was so cool is that i got a

553
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:55,679
chance to know you

554
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:58,400
on this kind of intellectual level even

555
00:19:02,150 --> 00:18:59,600
if it was just a little bit

556
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:02,160
and i was like how brave for this person

557
00:19:03,909 --> 00:19:03,440
to kind of put themselves out there and

558
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,919
go

559
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:05,760
no you know i just want to talk about

560
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:08,240
rudolph steiner and how that relates to

561
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,799
you know your ideas in terms of extended

562
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:12,000
consciousness

563
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:14,720
and then by the way this is also a part

564
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:15,520
of who i

565
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:18,640
am and i'm okay with it and i'm okay

566
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:19,200
with

567
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,760
integrating it or i'm still working on

568
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:23,600
integrating it because we're all working

569
00:19:26,789 --> 00:19:23,840
on

570
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:26,799
integrating all the parts of us so i've

571
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:27,440
always

572
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:30,960
admired the the bravery that you have

573
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:33,679
in just kind of putting it out there and

574
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,400
saying

575
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:37,039
let's see how these things fit and i

576
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:38,240
think it fits

577
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:42,080
it backs up perfectly what you're saying

578
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:43,919
and in a way with that just being kind

579
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:45,520
of a little bit of a

580
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:49,039
admiration society kind of thing

581
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:52,799
it kind of leads into this phd

582
00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:54,240
program that you're getting involved

583
00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:56,320
with and the thesis and i don't want to

584
00:20:00,630 --> 00:19:57,440
say thesis because you're

585
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:00,640
not that far along but what you

586
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,640
described to me i thought was so

587
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:04,320
skeptical if you would

588
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,440
you know so perfect in and so

589
00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:09,679
as soon as i heard it i was like wow how

590
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:10,960
has no one

591
00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:12,640
done that before why hasn't anyone

592
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:14,320
explored that which of course is the

593
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:15,440
perfect

594
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:18,640
you know ground for a phd so

595
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:21,280
tell us let's relive that conversation

596
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:22,400
we're having and tell us what you're

597
00:20:25,430 --> 00:20:23,600
thinking about

598
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:25,440
in terms of what interests you and tell

599
00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:27,280
us about the phd program

600
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,320
in general because i want to help you

601
00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:32,080
you know make that happen and i hope

602
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:34,480
other skeptical listeners can get behind

603
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:34,880
your

604
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:37,120
patreon thing and help you make that

605
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:38,559
happen because it's research that needs

606
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:39,840
to happen

607
00:20:44,149 --> 00:20:43,120
yeah thank you so um okay so the very

608
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:44,159
short version of it

609
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:47,600
is that i'm gonna get a i'm getting a

610
00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:48,720
phd

611
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:51,440
studying for it'll be a long time

612
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:52,080
probably

613
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:56,080
five years or more um doing research on

614
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:56,720
how

615
00:21:00,789 --> 00:20:59,039
people are stigmatized shamed and

616
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:00,799
ridiculed in the media

617
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:04,400
by their families and uh you know in

618
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:04,799
other

619
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:08,159
ways for having paranormal

620
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:11,679
and occult experiences um or being

621
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:13,039
paranormal or in cult

622
00:21:18,630 --> 00:21:16,400
investigators so um

623
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:18,640
and one of the ways and one of the

624
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:20,159
things that sort of like

625
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:22,159
is strange about this is that even

626
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,520
though we

627
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:25,200
know when someone has a sustained

628
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:26,960
paranormal experience so when i say

629
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:28,880
sustained i mean you know when someone

630
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:30,559
just says oh i was like thinking about

631
00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:31,600
somebody calling me

632
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:33,280
and then they called we can talk about

633
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:35,280
that and laugh or if someone says oh i

634
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:37,919
saw ufo once even if that happens we can

635
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:39,440
talk about it in sort of a

636
00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:40,960
lighthearted way but if someone has a

637
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,400
sustained experience if they're

638
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:44,400
encountering something again and again

639
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:46,159
and they need help or they're trying to

640
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:48,000
interpret or understand the experience

641
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,840
then it enters into a whole different

642
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:51,360
dimension so first of all that's

643
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:52,799
interesting to me why these sort of

644
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:54,880
levels of stigma and shaming

645
00:21:59,990 --> 00:21:58,000
happen but when the thing that's

646
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:00,000
interesting about is that we consume

647
00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:02,080
narratives about the paranormal and the

648
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:03,840
occult and the

649
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:06,400
sort of strangely spiritual all the time

650
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:08,159
they're hugely popular in the form of

651
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:09,120
horror movies

652
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:12,159
um and and horror narratives

653
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,520
and so we flock to those even if a

654
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:15,360
horror movie is bad

655
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:17,520
it usually makes money because people

656
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:18,960
are really into it

657
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:21,120
and yet it's also critically panned

658
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:22,480
right so this is something i noticed

659
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:23,679
from being

660
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:25,760
from making porn this is one of the

661
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:27,840
associations i made which is like

662
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:31,120
porn is wildly popular yet it is never

663
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,960
i mean except you know for a brief

664
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:34,159
moment really in

665
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:37,200
like the 70s like considered an art an

666
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:38,000
art form

667
00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:39,600
like really taken seriously and talked

668
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:41,520
about in a culturally

669
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:43,840
critical thoughtful investigative way

670
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:44,640
whether

671
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:46,960
you know good or bad is just sort of

672
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,000
dismissed

673
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:50,799
you know from from the get-go as an art

674
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:51,600
form

675
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:54,480
and porn and horror movies experience

676
00:22:56,549 --> 00:22:55,120
the same

677
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:56,559
issue where it's just like they're

678
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:58,159
critically panned and they're laughed at

679
00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:59,840
and yet they're wildly popular

680
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:02,000
so to me i thought but is this some word

681
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:03,360
symptom

682
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:06,720
of like repression

683
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:08,240
where like their oppression is like

684
00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:10,000
rising to the surface because we're

685
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:12,080
keeping these experiences

686
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:14,400
to ourselves because we know that

687
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:16,080
there'll be repercussions if we talk

688
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:16,720
about them

689
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:20,480
and yet as a culture we celebrate

690
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:22,080
fictionalized accounts of these

691
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:24,320
experiences so

692
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:26,320
those were sort of the two parts that

693
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,480
got me interested in this

694
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:30,559
big long-term project which will be an

695
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:31,600
anthropological

696
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,120
project on phd um in

697
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:37,760
in ireland so that's the other part i

698
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:38,480
wanted to be

699
00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:42,080
somewhere where um questions of

700
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:44,559
belief and science were in a sort of

701
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:45,840
strange

702
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:48,720
place because of the way the religious

703
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:49,679
landscape

704
00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:51,520
and the sort of more materialistic

705
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:53,120
landscape are

706
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:56,480
still evolving and unfolding there um

707
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:59,840
so yeah i'm really i'm really excited to

708
00:24:02,549 --> 00:24:01,840
do this project i haven't started yet i

709
00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:02,559
mean i've

710
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:05,200
obviously done some pre-research and you

711
00:24:08,549 --> 00:24:06,960
know written out my research

712
00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:08,559
project outline and all that sort of

713
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,480
stuff but

714
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:12,480
and i've had a lot of conversations

715
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:13,679
about it with

716
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:16,080
people uh who have had paranormal

717
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,679
experiences and i've taken

718
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,360
notes and also talked to some

719
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:21,200
investigators about it and

720
00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:23,200
i can talk a little bit more if you want

721
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:25,120
about you know one of the conversations

722
00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:27,039
i had with an investigator about it and

723
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:27,840
where this sort of

724
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:30,320
came from if you want to maybe we could

725
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:32,000
get into that in a minute there's one

726
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:34,799
other angle to it that really intrigued

727
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:36,400
me and i want to see if we can

728
00:24:39,669 --> 00:24:37,760
have a little bit of a conversation

729
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:39,679
about it because again

730
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:41,600
you know you always bring the sex angle

731
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:43,360
into this you know which is

732
00:24:46,789 --> 00:24:45,120
something that i have to say you know

733
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:46,799
you've just made me kind of

734
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:49,600
look there in a way that is cool because

735
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:50,240
i wasn't

736
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:52,480
looking there before even the last time

737
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:54,880
we talked and you said yeah and look at

738
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:58,080
the sexual angle as it relates to the

739
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:59,360
paranormal

740
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:01,600
and then you go oh [\h__\h] man what do you

741
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:03,200
do with that what do you do with

742
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:06,000
the demon who raped me you know right

743
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:06,799
what do you do

744
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:09,840
with the positive angel who had

745
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:12,559
intercourse with me you know i mean

746
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:13,200
suddenly

747
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:15,120
and then you had a couple of other

748
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:16,240
cultural

749
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:19,360
uh touch points with that and i was like

750
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:21,760
wow there is a lot there to pull apart

751
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:22,240
and then

752
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:23,279
you know the thing i've gotten

753
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:25,840
interested in a lot lately is

754
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:28,480
the whole et thing and some people are

755
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:29,200
saying well

756
00:25:34,789 --> 00:25:32,640
there's an e.t spiritual transformation

757
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,799
kind of connection but then there's also

758
00:25:39,269 --> 00:25:36,559
the e.t

759
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:39,279
sex thing you know and again if you look

760
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:40,799
at like you were saying in the porn

761
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:41,200
thing

762
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:44,240
or if you look at the porn literature

763
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:46,799
you know that's a super popular topic i

764
00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:48,720
mean you write about how

765
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:50,720
my encounter with bigfoot man those

766
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:52,000
things go through the roof

767
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:54,159
same with my encounters with e.t or the

768
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:55,200
reptilian

769
00:25:59,190 --> 00:25:58,400
super popular stuff so you know what's

770
00:26:02,630 --> 00:25:59,200
going on

771
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:02,640
there in terms of the whole spectrum of

772
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:07,039
sex and the extended consciousness realm

773
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:08,880
do you have any thoughts going in

774
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:12,000
yeah so that to me is so fascinating and

775
00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:13,360
it's something i'm going to keep an eye

776
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:14,320
out you know

777
00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:16,480
for as i begin to do the research but

778
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:18,640
i've already sort of looked into it so

779
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:22,000
for instance um okay so here's a really

780
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:24,320
simple example so my friend mona

781
00:26:30,549 --> 00:26:27,039
eltahawi who is on my show

782
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:30,559
a couple episodes back she's an egyptian

783
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:34,000
feminist writer she's muslim and she's

784
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:35,679
like really into sexual liberation and

785
00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:37,360
she brought up when i told her what i

786
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:38,799
was gonna do she's like oh well there

787
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:39,600
are these

788
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:41,440
you know women muslim women will

789
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:43,200
sometimes say that they've been

790
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:45,520
captured or possessed by a gin or

791
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:47,840
they've had sex with a gin like a genie

792
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:49,120
and so therefore they can't have sex

793
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:51,120
with their husbands anymore and we both

794
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:52,960
kind of laughed for a second

795
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:54,320
and then i said well isn't it so

796
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,159
interesting that we laughed and we just

797
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:58,799
automatically assumed that like what was

798
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:00,640
happening there was a way to sort of

799
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:02,400
escape the power that's in the

800
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:05,440
home you know like maybe for some people

801
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:06,000
it is but

802
00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:07,679
like why should we immediately

803
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:09,600
disbelieve the person or

804
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:12,400
you know account after account after

805
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:13,360
account

806
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:16,000
of people that have had sexual

807
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:17,039
encounters with

808
00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:20,000
or been either consensual or

809
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:21,039
non-consensual

810
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:23,360
with you know supernatural entities with

811
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:24,240
ghosts

812
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:27,120
with demons or you know how if you want

813
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:27,679
to

814
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:30,240
make it not so supernatural or whatever

815
00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:30,960
you could say

816
00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:33,919
you know with aliens um although i know

817
00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:35,679
they have a supernatural aspect

818
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:37,840
but so when you get into accounts where

819
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:39,200
people say that they've been raped by a

820
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:41,039
supernatural entity how do you handle

821
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:41,360
that

822
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,320
in the sort of uh believe the victims

823
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:46,480
metoo narrative is an interesting

824
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:47,440
question to me

825
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,880
this is the idea is that you believe the

826
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:50,960
victims you know when they say

827
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:53,919
hey i have i've been raped and you know

828
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,520
maybe you don't have the

829
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:57,360
all the evidence in place but it's

830
00:28:02,630 --> 00:27:58,799
important to believe me

831
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:02,640
because a whole history of silence

832
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:03,039
around

833
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:05,440
assault victims has existed before this

834
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:06,720
what do you do with the people where the

835
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:07,840
assaulter isn't

836
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:09,360
present and you don't believe that the

837
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:10,880
assaulter exists

838
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:12,640
this is a really interesting question to

839
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,080
me and it's not and

840
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:16,480
it's funny because even to bring that up

841
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:18,080
people think that you're demeaning

842
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:19,679
rape or sexual assault by bringing these

843
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:21,440
other accounts in but

844
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:24,720
to me that's that tangle of questions

845
00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:27,840
is so has so much that i can tell us you

846
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:28,320
know

847
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:34,960
this woman ida kradock who

848
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:36,960
around the time of the world's fair here

849
00:28:42,549 --> 00:28:40,080
in the us she was teaching women how to

850
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:42,559
experience sexual pleasure and she was

851
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:44,480
hounded to death by anthony comstock the

852
00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:45,200
guy who

853
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:48,720
uh who ran the society

854
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:50,640
was a society against vice or whatever

855
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:51,760
the guy who was just

856
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:54,880
you know like making sure that nobody

857
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:56,880
was sending any information about sex or

858
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:58,000
pregnancy or anything

859
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:59,919
in the mail because that's that and you

860
00:29:02,389 --> 00:29:01,039
would arrest you see

861
00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:02,399
she was hounded to death by him

862
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:04,240
literally she she killed herself because

863
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,320
she was hounded so frequently by him

864
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:08,320
and she said she was married to an angel

865
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:09,679
and that she had had all these sexual

866
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:11,120
encounters with an angel and

867
00:29:15,029 --> 00:29:13,679
people like to dismiss that and say oh

868
00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:15,039
well she was just doing that so she

869
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:15,840
could stay

870
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:18,399
single and blah blah well maybe so but

871
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:20,000
that's not the language that she used

872
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:21,360
she used language of saying

873
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:24,240
no i'm married to an angel i have this

874
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:25,679
whole sexual love

875
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:27,200
emotional relationship with this

876
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:29,279
spiritual being and so

877
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:31,200
and then of course you know nuns are

878
00:29:35,350 --> 00:29:32,320
married to christ

879
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:35,360
so you have like this whole connection

880
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:36,799
of supernatural

881
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:39,279
paranormal spiritual and also

882
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:40,799
extraterrestrial

883
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:44,080
events that are in the sexual realm that

884
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:45,520
people don't think of

885
00:29:48,549 --> 00:29:48,240
so i'm not the reason why i'm not going

886
00:29:51,909 --> 00:29:48,559
there

887
00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:51,919
first with my investigation is because

888
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:53,360
that's something that needs to unfold

889
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:55,120
and open up people feel

890
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:56,399
vulnerable about supernatural

891
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:58,480
experiences and paranormal experiences

892
00:30:01,909 --> 00:30:00,799
and investigations they feel vulnerable

893
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:01,919
about their sexual

894
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:05,440
you know uh encounters and so you know i

895
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:07,840
can't depend on that all just like

896
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:08,880
showing up for me

897
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:11,200
just because i meet some strangers and

898
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:12,799
say hey have you ever had sex with a

899
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:13,679
ghost you know

900
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:16,960
you can't do that so i gotta sort of

901
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:19,200
figure out is this gonna unfold

902
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:21,279
naturally and all that but that is a

903
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:22,080
real concern

904
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:23,919
for me and is something i'll investigate

905
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:25,360
in literature even if

906
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,679
you know people aren't necessarily

907
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:29,840
willing to talk about it you know

908
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:31,600
great yeah i'm interested to see how

909
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:33,760
that unfolds because

910
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:35,360
i think if you've already put that

911
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:37,120
intention out there

912
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:40,480
to me it just seems like fertile ground

913
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:44,640
in in so many ways and it is so

914
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:48,480
so interesting and so um unexplored

915
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:51,600
taboo you know stigmatized

916
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:54,320
on top of stigma you know the stigma of

917
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:56,240
paranormal and then the added stigma of

918
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,200
the sexual so

919
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:59,840
it's a very very interesting stuff so

920
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:00,720
tell people

921
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,960
more maybe about the particulars you're

922
00:31:07,509 --> 00:31:04,320
going to need a little bit of help

923
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:07,519
getting to ireland to do this thing it's

924
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:10,720
quite an undertaking but you're often

925
00:31:15,269 --> 00:31:12,880
you're often doing it right yeah yeah

926
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:15,279
i'm often doing it so i'm starting it

927
00:31:22,149 --> 00:31:19,120
uh in 2019 we're recording in 2018 i'm

928
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:22,159
starting in 2019 and uh you know i mean

929
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:22,720
the

930
00:31:27,509 --> 00:31:25,760
courses

931
00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:27,519
um and then i start doing the

932
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:28,960
ethnographic work

933
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:31,039
um the field work and that sort of stuff

934
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:32,000
and that is

935
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:35,279
uh that's me um all that

936
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:37,039
yes all that i need help with so please

937
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,279
support me on my patreon

938
00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:41,039
if you like this conversation you like

939
00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:43,360
my show i have a page is patreon.com

940
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:44,559
forward slash conor b

941
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:46,399
then you get all kinds of cool stuff

942
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:48,000
just for sort of contributing to the

943
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:49,200
mission there of

944
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:51,200
having these deep discussions and

945
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:53,360
conversations in accessible language

946
00:32:00,310 --> 00:31:56,399
but um yeah i mean i i think

947
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:00,320
that that work that begins um

948
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:03,120
that work that begins this coming year

949
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:03,679
yeah it's a

950
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:05,919
it's a it's a long project and it

951
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:08,640
requires a lot a lot of work i mean

952
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:10,240
that's how anthropology goes

953
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:12,399
because you don't know if you're going

954
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:14,320
to be able to secure all the contacts

955
00:32:17,669 --> 00:32:15,120
that you want it

956
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:17,679
it moves and shifts because it's the

957
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:18,159
only

958
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:20,240
academic discipline first of all the

959
00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:21,600
only only academic disciplines that

960
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:23,279
takes the occult and the spiritual

961
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:25,440
seriously i mean really seriously on its

962
00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:26,640
own terms

963
00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:28,000
when it's at its best and it doesn't

964
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:30,640
always do that but the other thing is

965
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:33,120
it's a it's a discipline based on

966
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:34,880
friendship

967
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,960
you try you become friends with people

968
00:32:40,870 --> 00:32:38,640
really you become friends with people

969
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:40,880
you don't just fake it you know and some

970
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:43,039
some anthropologists are bad friends

971
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:44,559
but you become friends with people so

972
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:46,480
you can learn about the relationships in

973
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:48,240
yourself and the things that unfold in

974
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:49,760
those relationships and

975
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:52,960
listening and talking and so

976
00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:54,399
you don't become friends with i mean

977
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:56,080
some people become friends instantly

978
00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:57,440
but you don't become friends with people

979
00:33:01,590 --> 00:32:59,440
instantly so it's a it's

980
00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:01,600
uh it's going to be a long work that i

981
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,200
definitely need

982
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:05,760
some assistance with this is this is i

983
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:07,760
think really interesting stuff and i

984
00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:09,360
think there's a lot of people will

985
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:12,240
share my interest in saying wow that's

986
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,039
really

987
00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:15,120
something that's going to bear fruit and

988
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:17,120
we want to keep an eye on it but

989
00:33:21,029 --> 00:33:20,080
i have an opportunity here as a gay arab

990
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:21,039
porn star

991
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:25,039
like you have kind of a neoliberal

992
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:29,279
ghetto pass that i can't resist

993
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:32,720
taking advantage of and

994
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:36,320
engaging in maybe a conversation on the

995
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:39,600
uh on politics and about some of the

996
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,640
cultural

997
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,480
things that are going on that are really

998
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:44,000
completely different

999
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:45,600
than what we're just talking about with

1000
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,200
regard to your phd

1001
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:49,919
and in a lot of ways don't hit directly

1002
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:50,640
with

1003
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:53,279
your against everyone podcast but in a

1004
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:54,640
way kind of do

1005
00:34:00,549 --> 00:33:57,760
as well and that's because

1006
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,559
there is this unbelievable divide right

1007
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:02,640
now and i think a lot of people are

1008
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:04,080
kind of talking about it from the

1009
00:34:08,069 --> 00:34:06,080
outside and pointing at it and going

1010
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:08,079
wow what's with with this you know it's

1011
00:34:12,869 --> 00:34:10,240
impossible to have public discourse and

1012
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,879
you know this group seems to be totally

1013
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:14,240
off in some

1014
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,919
la la land and there's no getting

1015
00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:18,079
together and so i thought we might pull

1016
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:18,879
that apart

1017
00:34:23,589 --> 00:34:21,040
and it's interesting because when we

1018
00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:23,599
started to have that conversation

1019
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:25,040
one of the things that you said that

1020
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:27,280
again i really loved i mean it's so

1021
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:30,480
connor in a perfect kind of way in that

1022
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:33,119
you said well going into it alex both

1023
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:34,079
you and i realize

1024
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,560
that it's kind of all [\h__\h] anyway

1025
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:38,240
because we're playing a consensus

1026
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,639
reality game and we understand that in

1027
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:42,720
some way we don't fully understand

1028
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:44,399
consciousness is fundamental and we're

1029
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:46,240
creating this reality and

1030
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:48,879
all this other stuff is kind of a game

1031
00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:50,480
outside of the game

1032
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:52,240
okay so yeah so so what that's a good

1033
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:53,760
way to set it because foundationally

1034
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:54,720
you're saying that we

1035
00:35:02,790 --> 00:34:58,880
actually were on the same page

1036
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:02,800
so now we can get into the particulars

1037
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:05,599
yeah and fundamentally on the same page

1038
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:06,480
and really

1039
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:07,839
you know and i don't want to kind of

1040
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:09,359
drive that point into the ground but

1041
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:10,160
it's like

1042
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:12,160
you really got to be grounded in that i

1043
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:13,440
mean i think you really have to be

1044
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:15,040
grounded you know you're a

1045
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:18,240
rudolph steinian you know and i'm not so

1046
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:18,640
much

1047
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:21,119
but i sure appreciate where you're

1048
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:22,240
coming from in that

1049
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:25,760
in terms of that being your foundation

1050
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:27,920
that being your base and spirituality

1051
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:30,000
being your foundation in base and you

1052
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:32,960
know who am i why am i here being the

1053
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:35,040
fundamental questions you have to get

1054
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:36,480
back to so you're not going to get

1055
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:38,720
pulled too far with any kind of

1056
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:40,480
political [\h__\h] because at the end of

1057
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:42,079
the day it's all political [\h__\h] and

1058
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:43,680
we will never know

1059
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:46,000
we're not ruling the world and we're not

1060
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:47,839
have all the answers to

1061
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:49,599
how all this stuff is supposed to happen

1062
00:35:55,270 --> 00:35:52,320
so there's a humility that i think

1063
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:55,280
you can enter that conversation with and

1064
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:57,040
hopefully i can too

1065
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:59,200
right yeah i mean in some ways so it's

1066
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:00,480
good that you're setting the stage this

1067
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,240
way because really at the

1068
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:04,160
sort of bottom of all my politics is

1069
00:36:07,270 --> 00:36:06,079
like you know you really

1070
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:07,280
we really need to ask ourselves a

1071
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:09,520
question of what it means to be human

1072
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:11,680
what it means to be a human being and

1073
00:36:14,510 --> 00:36:13,440
what exactly is happening here you have

1074
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:14,520
to ask yourself

1075
00:36:18,069 --> 00:36:16,400
phenomenological questions questions

1076
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:18,079
about the experience

1077
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:21,680
of being and then your

1078
00:36:25,990 --> 00:36:24,800
your uh and then your politics can stem

1079
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:26,000
and grow out of there

1080
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:29,440
right but the thing is like

1081
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:31,119
part of my experience of being human is

1082
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:33,440
that i i become unmoored from that

1083
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:34,400
sometimes

1084
00:36:38,069 --> 00:36:37,440
you know and so it's like yes i i try to

1085
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:38,079
make that

1086
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:40,720
happen but where i fail where i can't

1087
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:42,160
see those connections or i just haven't

1088
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:44,160
done the work yet or i don't have time

1089
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:46,000
i try to have some sort of ethical

1090
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:47,760
cohesion or sort of

1091
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:51,280
philosophical like uh

1092
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:54,480
like some sort of like uh intelligent

1093
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:56,400
intelligent philosophy around things

1094
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:58,000
where the gaps are

1095
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:00,320
or just say i don't know like i don't

1096
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:02,560
know but yeah

1097
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:06,320
great so with that let me jump into it

1098
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:09,599
from one angle which is you know as you

1099
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:10,720
described in

1100
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,520
if people get to know your work you

1101
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:15,520
don't mind playing the role of the

1102
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:21,270
and that's cool because i am right there

1103
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:23,200
with you man i'm kind of you know

1104
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:25,680
you don't say yeah why science is wrong

1105
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:27,280
about almost everything you know

1106
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:30,960
what do you mean but

1107
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:32,560
there's there's something good about

1108
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:33,920
that there's something about that that i

1109
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:35,440
certainly respect

1110
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:37,200
so i guess i'm going to kind of push you

1111
00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:38,640
a little bit and

1112
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:42,560
ask how much of some of these stances

1113
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:44,079
that you're taking

1114
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:46,400
is you being a provocateur and as

1115
00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:47,760
opposed to you

1116
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:51,119
kind of trying to uh dive deep

1117
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:54,720
into the underlying realities be they

1118
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:55,599
political

1119
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:58,640
or conspiratorial or however we want to

1120
00:38:03,349 --> 00:37:59,520
look at it i mean

1121
00:38:06,790 --> 00:38:03,359
you sometimes pitch a lot of this commie

1122
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:06,800
work is wrong work is bad kind of stuff

1123
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:09,760
money is terrible i mean come on that's

1124
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:10,240
not

1125
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:13,520
same time you're

1126
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:14,880
it's like i just listened to an

1127
00:38:20,230 --> 00:38:17,280
interview or i read an interview you did

1128
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:20,240
with what's her name heather berg yeah

1129
00:38:25,030 --> 00:38:22,000
at usc

1130
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:25,040
i mean here's a woman who's in academia

1131
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:26,880
at usc which is like this

1132
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:30,160
elite private school just dripping with

1133
00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:30,880
money

1134
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:33,359
and she's you know fighting for the

1135
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:34,000
working

1136
00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:37,280
class sex worker you know i mean it just

1137
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:37,839
doesn't

1138
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:40,960
ring true on so many levels and i think

1139
00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:44,160
you ring true a little bit more because

1140
00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:45,920
there are some injustices that have been

1141
00:38:48,790 --> 00:38:46,480
done

1142
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:48,800
but i mean let's really pull apart the

1143
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:50,880
the money thing let's pull apart the

1144
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:51,280
work

1145
00:38:54,630 --> 00:38:54,320
thing and i'll let you start and then

1146
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:54,640
i'll

1147
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:02,790
okay so um yeah i mean so what you're

1148
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:03,599
referring to

1149
00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:06,880
so i wrote and i co-authored an article

1150
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:08,800
i mean basically it's a conversation

1151
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:11,520
between me and dr heather berg at usc

1152
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:12,640
called the problem

1153
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:16,000
with sex work is work and in it like

1154
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:18,960
we just the main focus of that is

1155
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:20,480
pulling apart why work

1156
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:23,520
is why work sucks i do

1157
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:26,320
believe that so let me walk back for a

1158
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:27,359
second

1159
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,440
a lot of the stuff i say is provocative

1160
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:31,760
the thing that i actually do more than

1161
00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:34,720
provoke though is i agree more than i

1162
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:35,680
agree

1163
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:39,280
people because i

1164
00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:41,680
i don't i want to see what it's not that

1165
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,599
i think that nobody should ever disagree

1166
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:45,680
or that that doesn't give anything in

1167
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:47,119
the world or debate doesn't give

1168
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:48,000
anything

1169
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:50,000
but for me it's not so valuable for me

1170
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,520
i'd rather see what happens

1171
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:53,680
on my show particularly happy to

1172
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:54,720
disagree with you

1173
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:57,520
here but on my show particularly when we

1174
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:59,119
try to resonate with each other

1175
00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:01,119
and see what happens you know what can

1176
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:02,160
emerge from

1177
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:03,599
finding the things that we're curious

1178
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:05,680
and interested about so i do

1179
00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:07,680
that more than i provide more than i

1180
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:09,280
provoke on my show so a lot of stuff i

1181
00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:11,680
say that might sound provocative i do

1182
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,640
believe in i do think that work is

1183
00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:16,560
nonsense i did an episode of my show

1184
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:18,319
that was just a solo episode called work

1185
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:19,200
and die

1186
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:22,240
which is about how um

1187
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:25,440
you know work work really kills

1188
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:27,280
i've got have the statistic on the show

1189
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:28,480
and i can't remember it right now but

1190
00:40:31,109 --> 00:40:30,160
the thousands and thousands of people

1191
00:40:33,510 --> 00:40:31,119
that

1192
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:33,520
like going to work kills whether it's on

1193
00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:34,880
the job on the way to the job being

1194
00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:36,079
depressed

1195
00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:38,079
you know because the job stressed out

1196
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:39,520
having health problems because the job

1197
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:42,000
or not having a job and searching for a

1198
00:40:44,309 --> 00:40:42,640
job and

1199
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:44,319
killing yourself because you can't find

1200
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:45,760
one whatever like there are all these

1201
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:46,960
statistics done by

1202
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:50,160
different labor groups and the the idea

1203
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:51,280
being that

1204
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,960
not that we shouldn't apply ourselves

1205
00:40:56,470 --> 00:40:54,400
with effort to things that we are

1206
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:56,480
interested in but the demand

1207
00:41:01,270 --> 00:41:00,000
from our culture uh from our government

1208
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:01,280
that says

1209
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:04,960
work or starve to death work or

1210
00:41:08,710 --> 00:41:07,440
you know or or watch your family die

1211
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:08,720
because they don't have insurance

1212
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:11,520
work or this work or that you know that

1213
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:12,240
to me

1214
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:15,520
is what i'm defining as work is a demand

1215
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:16,960
that you have to do things in a certain

1216
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:17,680
way to make

1217
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:20,560
money which i don't i i don't think that

1218
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:22,319
the solution to that

1219
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:25,200
is right there for us i think that we

1220
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:26,880
would have to take a lot of steps to get

1221
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:27,680
there

1222
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:30,319
but my ultimate goal would be that we

1223
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:31,839
don't need to have

1224
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:34,160
jobs anymore that we can start to

1225
00:41:39,430 --> 00:41:36,400
reorganize our culture in a way that

1226
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,440
is friendly to actually not having the

1227
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:41,440
same kind of economic system that

1228
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:44,160
makes those demands yeah that's fine

1229
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:44,720
it's just

1230
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:48,079
completely out of touch with reality no

1231
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:48,800
okay

1232
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:51,440
couldn't resist let me let me take that

1233
00:41:53,990 --> 00:41:52,000
back

1234
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:54,000
but let me try and break it down i guess

1235
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:55,760
my problem with that is it does seem to

1236
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:56,240
stand

1237
00:42:02,550 --> 00:41:59,520
in contrast with the fact that

1238
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:02,560
the phony baloney lifestyle that we've

1239
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:03,680
created

1240
00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:07,839
in the west which is the most prosperous

1241
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:11,200
life in recorded history has allowed

1242
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:11,760
people

1243
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:14,480
greater flexibility and greater freedom

1244
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:15,440
from the

1245
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,640
work or starve reality than

1246
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:20,560
at any time in history you know i like

1247
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,880
all these goofy reality tv shows

1248
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,400
and i i wanted watching all these

1249
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:26,640
survivor shows a lot of times you know

1250
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:28,960
but if you watch like alone which was i

1251
00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:30,400
i love that show because it

1252
00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:32,720
encompassed both the need that we have

1253
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:34,480
really to be in a community

1254
00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:36,160
and that when we're put alone and made

1255
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:37,920
to survive on our own

1256
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:40,480
it's not just the survival lack of food

1257
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:42,400
that gets us but it's the lack of

1258
00:42:45,670 --> 00:42:44,400
being with other people and how we need

1259
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:45,680
that but

1260
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:48,160
i digress slightly because what the show

1261
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:49,920
ultimately reveals is that

1262
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:53,040
work or starve is the reality that

1263
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:56,319
most people have faced throughout time

1264
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:59,760
and also the reality that most people on

1265
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:01,200
this planet

1266
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:04,240
face right now so they're just i

1267
00:43:07,589 --> 00:43:06,319
i don't want to get too provocative but

1268
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:07,599
just to hear you

1269
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,319
kind of talk when heather talk about you

1270
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:12,880
know how we shouldn't work and

1271
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:14,800
work shouldn't it there is a workers

1272
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:17,119
dive star of reality that's always been

1273
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:17,920
in place

1274
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:19,920
aren't you jumping a little bit far

1275
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:21,040
ahead of the game it's

1276
00:43:26,309 --> 00:43:24,319
easier now to avoid the work or starve

1277
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:26,319
reality than ever before move to

1278
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:29,520
portland get a dog

1279
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:30,720
walk the streets and they'll give you

1280
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:32,880
another 400 a month just to have a dog i

1281
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:33,359
mean

1282
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:36,640
there you go it's it's not hard yeah so

1283
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:37,200
it's not

1284
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:40,000
so so a few things one is that when i

1285
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:41,359
say

1286
00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:46,480
certain indigenous cultures that didn't

1287
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:47,920
have the same economic structure where

1288
00:43:50,950 --> 00:43:49,680
it's like okay but if you don't go and

1289
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:50,960
hunt and gather

1290
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:53,280
you know or do you know minimal

1291
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,000
agriculture

1292
00:43:57,750 --> 00:43:56,400
like you'll die because you'll starve

1293
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:57,760
what i'm talking about

1294
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:00,960
is a system that's set up by an

1295
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:04,560
outside human constructed force

1296
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:07,520
that's saying you know if you don't if

1297
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:09,520
you don't engage in a wage

1298
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:12,160
and labor relationship in a specific way

1299
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:13,839
you're in a lot of trouble

1300
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:16,000
right so like even just thinking about

1301
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:17,359
how hard it's been

1302
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:20,800
for me to get to where i am so i

1303
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:23,520
i mean great i have a patreon i spend a

1304
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:24,560
lot of time my day

1305
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:27,440
reading and writing and that's awesome

1306
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:28,240
and yet

1307
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:31,760
like i've had a lot of time in my life

1308
00:44:35,109 --> 00:44:32,640
where it was like

1309
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:35,119
am i going to make rent am i going to do

1310
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:36,560
this am i going to

1311
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:39,599
be able to eat next what grow up that's

1312
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:40,319
the world

1313
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:42,640
it's competitive it's a highly

1314
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:43,839
competitive

1315
00:44:48,309 --> 00:44:46,000
environment the fact that we've removed

1316
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:48,319
that lower that lowest layer of

1317
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:50,160
competitiveness i don't know if that's

1318
00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:51,440
good or bad and we can have an

1319
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:53,760
argument about that but you've never had

1320
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:54,880
to endure

1321
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:58,480
that kind of work or starve reality that

1322
00:45:02,230 --> 00:44:59,839
so many people face

1323
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:02,240
i'm not saying boohoo poor me i'm saying

1324
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:04,319
i want that to i want that to be easier

1325
00:45:08,069 --> 00:45:06,000
for everybody else so like

1326
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:08,079
i don't mind taking that on obviously if

1327
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:09,359
i didn't i wouldn't do it

1328
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,960
but i want everybody else to have an

1329
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:12,400
easier time with it so

1330
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:14,160
while i agree with you that some of the

1331
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:15,920
things that have developed in our

1332
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:18,000
culture are beneficial to giving

1333
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:20,480
us more time more space more creativity

1334
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,920
i just want to be better

1335
00:45:25,349 --> 00:45:23,359
i just want it to be better than this

1336
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:25,359
even for everybody so it's not a

1337
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:26,960
question for me

1338
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:29,200
because i'm not i would not identify

1339
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:31,200
myself as like a socialist or a marxist

1340
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:32,400
whereas heather would

1341
00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:34,240
and i think heather's really brilliant

1342
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:36,160
but i'm not i don't

1343
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,400
we don't see eye to eye on everything i

1344
00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:40,640
wouldn't say that we need to get to

1345
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,920
like a perfect socialist or marxist like

1346
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:45,520
economic structure

1347
00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:47,680
that somehow takes care of everybody in

1348
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:48,800
some glorious

1349
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:51,280
like marxist thing where everybody works

1350
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:51,920
in

1351
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:54,319
this sort of uh collective solidarity

1352
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:55,920
way that feeds back into this social

1353
00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:56,800
assistance i don't

1354
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,560
that's not i don't care about that i

1355
00:46:02,069 --> 00:46:00,400
just want to be better for everybody

1356
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:02,079
and i think there are lots of options

1357
00:46:05,670 --> 00:46:04,079
for it to be better so

1358
00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:05,680
someone i feel much more allied with is

1359
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:07,119
this there's this guy named fruchoff

1360
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:08,400
bergman who

1361
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:11,040
in detroit he was noticing like okay

1362
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:12,160
everybody is

1363
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:14,400
like unemployed here so instead of

1364
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:16,000
talking about how can we get them better

1365
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:16,880
jobs

1366
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:18,720
like let's talk about what can we do

1367
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:20,160
actually to sort of

1368
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:22,240
give you value and meaning to your day

1369
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:23,280
and also

1370
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:25,839
reconstruct the culture and an

1371
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:27,599
environment that you live in

1372
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:29,920
without just sort of jumping back into

1373
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:30,880
the easiest

1374
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:33,760
you know default place which is like get

1375
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:35,200
a job at a bank and

1376
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:37,599
you know work 60 hours a week and all

1377
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:39,599
that he was like no no we we have an

1378
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:41,040
opportunity here for me

1379
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:43,760
that's the interesting project is like

1380
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:45,440
what other options are available to us

1381
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:47,040
that are better for people

1382
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:50,000
i i don't i i agree with you that it's

1383
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:52,160
out of touch with the reality

1384
00:46:55,349 --> 00:46:54,000
which is why it's an important project

1385
00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:55,359
to me because

1386
00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:57,760
a lot of times the reality is really

1387
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:00,079
really difficult for a lot of people

1388
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:02,079
you know and for me personally of course

1389
00:47:05,270 --> 00:47:03,520
i find it difficult but i'm not going to

1390
00:47:07,589 --> 00:47:05,280
complain about that all the time

1391
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:07,599
i just want to make it easier for people

1392
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:08,880
i want people to

1393
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:12,480
ability to like do all kinds of other

1394
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:13,760
creative things

1395
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:16,560
i do too and i i hear that i i hear

1396
00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:18,079
where you're coming from and i guess

1397
00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:20,800
what that stirs up for me is i spent a

1398
00:47:25,190 --> 00:47:21,680
lot of time

1399
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:25,200
in my life trying to manifest

1400
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:28,319
that wealth you know and i was able to

1401
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:29,440
do it but i spent

1402
00:47:36,589 --> 00:47:33,359
a ton of time investigating how to do it

1403
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:36,599
and i read every self-help

1404
00:47:42,549 --> 00:47:40,079
money-oriented get rich the

1405
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:42,559
not get rich quick but get rich by

1406
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,319
changing the fundamental

1407
00:47:48,069 --> 00:47:46,319
workings of your brains and your belief

1408
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:48,079
system and all the rest of that

1409
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:51,200
and it really educated me in kind of the

1410
00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:52,800
you know one of the classic books in

1411
00:47:57,349 --> 00:47:55,520
this field is the rich dad poor dad kind

1412
00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:57,359
of thing

1413
00:48:01,990 --> 00:48:00,000
the whole philosophy behind rich dad

1414
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:02,000
poor dad is a guy who grows up

1415
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:04,319
with a poor dad a dad who's

1416
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:05,200
intellectually

1417
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:08,319
very smart has an advanced degree but

1418
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:11,440
is like barely getting by and

1419
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:14,240
the neighbor of the friend is the rich

1420
00:48:18,549 --> 00:48:14,960
dad

1421
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:18,559
who's figured it out and the kid

1422
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:21,920
goes to school and he goes hey i want to

1423
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:23,680
manifest some of that wealth

1424
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:26,000
and he starts copying the the patterns

1425
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:27,520
and the behaviors

1426
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:30,720
and really the belief system of the rich

1427
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:31,680
dad

1428
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:34,640
and i guess that's what i've tried to do

1429
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:35,760
as well i mean

1430
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:38,800
if you want to manifest wealth go

1431
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,359
look at successful people and talk to

1432
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:43,680
them not about what they do

1433
00:48:48,309 --> 00:48:46,559
talk to them about what they believe

1434
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:48,319
talk to them about how they see the

1435
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:49,280
world

1436
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:52,240
and you will find that you can manifest

1437
00:48:57,829 --> 00:48:53,920
all the things that you want

1438
00:49:00,790 --> 00:48:57,839
not only money but health happiness

1439
00:49:01,270 --> 00:49:00,800
better relationships all those things

1440
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:01,280
and

1441
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:04,240
that to me is so ingrained in me as just

1442
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:06,720
a reality of how the world works

1443
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:10,240
that it pains me to see people

1444
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:13,599
take this kind of radically

1445
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:17,119
just misguided idea that

1446
00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:19,760
money is the problem i mean you are such

1447
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:21,760
a highly competitive guy

1448
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,160
to reach where you are in terms of your

1449
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:26,559
phd program that's very competitive

1450
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:28,160
for you to succeed in that world is

1451
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:29,920
going to be very competitive and then i

1452
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:30,960
see people

1453
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:32,800
like you who jump over into this other

1454
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:34,319
realm and start talking about work and

1455
00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:35,920
start talking about money and want to go

1456
00:49:39,910 --> 00:49:38,240
oh no i don't want to compete there i

1457
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,920
want to just you know kind of pretend

1458
00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:41,520
like everything should be

1459
00:49:45,030 --> 00:49:43,200
different you know that the the whole

1460
00:49:45,510 --> 00:49:45,040
thing should be oriented in a different

1461
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:45,520
way

1462
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:48,000
and it's not man it's work or starve

1463
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:49,040
it's competition

1464
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:51,520
it's you rise to the top or you fall to

1465
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:52,160
the bottom

1466
00:49:58,230 --> 00:49:55,839
that bad like i say

1467
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:58,240
move to oregon get a dog and you get 800

1468
00:50:01,510 --> 00:50:00,079
a month i mean move to there are some

1469
00:50:03,750 --> 00:50:01,520
countries that are better than

1470
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,760
this one at that i think right but but

1471
00:50:07,829 --> 00:50:05,280
that's not good because it's

1472
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:07,839
not good but go ahead well no all i'm

1473
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:08,559
saying is that

1474
00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:10,880
like the the where the the bottom is

1475
00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:12,480
could be raised a bit more

1476
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:16,000
but what what i'm but well

1477
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:17,680
it's a it's a minor point compared to

1478
00:50:22,870 --> 00:50:19,760
what i'm about to say so let's

1479
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:22,880
let's leave it there for a second so the

1480
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:25,280
thing that the the thing that you're

1481
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:26,720
saying

1482
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:28,480
okay i agree with a lot of what you're

1483
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:30,319
saying which is like talk to successful

1484
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:32,000
people about their mindset all that sort

1485
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:32,960
of stuff

1486
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:34,480
i think that that's really important and

1487
00:50:39,670 --> 00:50:36,480
i think one of the hugest feelings

1488
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:39,680
of leftist politics in fact the failing

1489
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:41,760
i would say is that it's left

1490
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:43,839
it that is that spirituality does not

1491
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:45,440
exist there by and large

1492
00:50:48,950 --> 00:50:47,359
it's it's absent or a conscious

1493
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:48,960
engagement with spirituality it doesn't

1494
00:50:54,069 --> 00:50:50,720
exist there by and large and so

1495
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:54,079
all the sort of new age self-help stuff

1496
00:50:57,349 --> 00:50:55,680
you know that i still have a hard time

1497
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:57,359
even talking about without laughing at

1498
00:51:01,910 --> 00:50:58,559
it because of my own like

1499
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:01,920
in ingrained stigma is like

1500
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:04,079
i i think that that stuff is so

1501
00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:05,200
important and in fact

1502
00:51:08,549 --> 00:51:07,359
a huge turnaround moment in my life was

1503
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:08,559
when i was like you know i should

1504
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:10,079
probably start listening to these people

1505
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:10,720
right

1506
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:13,280
but if we accept that as part of how the

1507
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:15,440
world works which i do now

1508
00:51:19,589 --> 00:51:17,280
if that were available to everybody it

1509
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:19,599
surely would change the economic system

1510
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:20,240
so like

1511
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:21,839
if everybody was thinking in this sort

1512
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:23,599
of wealth consciousness

1513
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:25,599
self-help like that's just not that's

1514
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:27,680
just not that's not how it works conor

1515
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:30,720
again how can you go from being having

1516
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:31,520
this kind of

1517
00:51:36,950 --> 00:51:34,640
expansive world view of how

1518
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:36,960
everything can be better if we raise

1519
00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:38,559
everyone's consciousness

1520
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:41,280
if we all start thinking in a more

1521
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:43,040
fruitful productive way

1522
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:45,599
and then switch gears and get back into

1523
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:46,240
the

1524
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:48,800
scarcity model of saying oh yeah but if

1525
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:50,079
everyone did that

1526
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:52,480
it's like that's not how it works just

1527
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:54,400
manifest more for yourself

1528
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:56,720
in your life and help other people

1529
00:52:00,790 --> 00:51:57,839
manifest more

1530
00:52:01,589 --> 00:52:00,800
and everything will take care of itself

1531
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:01,599
well

1532
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:03,680
see but i agree with that statement you

1533
00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:04,800
just made but i don't think it was what

1534
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:06,240
you were saying before

1535
00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:08,160
what and maybe it's because i

1536
00:52:10,710 --> 00:52:09,520
misunderstand what you're saying or

1537
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:10,720
maybe because we have an actual

1538
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:12,000
disagreement here

1539
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:15,440
i think that first of all a lot of

1540
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:15,920
people

1541
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:17,520
are wounded by the way we talk about

1542
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:18,960
things in this culture right

1543
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:21,680
so and and some of its personal

1544
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:23,280
responsibility and some of it's a

1545
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:24,480
genuine cultural

1546
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:27,520
wound where that kind of stuff doesn't

1547
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:29,200
feel as readily accessible

1548
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:31,440
to people for all sorts of reasons like

1549
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:33,680
this kind of this mindset this attitude

1550
00:52:38,549 --> 00:52:36,000
this abundance wealth stuff

1551
00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:38,559
that for a lot of reasons is prohibitive

1552
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:39,200
for people

1553
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:41,520
now i'm not saying i'm not saying that

1554
00:52:44,470 --> 00:52:43,119
they can't get there and i think that

1555
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:44,480
that's actually a really shitty

1556
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:46,240
statement to say that they couldn't ever

1557
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:48,160
possibly imagine that i think that that

1558
00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:49,839
actually is really wrong

1559
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:51,440
but i'm seeing that there are a lot of

1560
00:52:55,190 --> 00:52:54,000
reasons why that people have a hard time

1561
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:55,200
embracing that

1562
00:52:59,109 --> 00:52:57,520
and understanding how that works well

1563
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:59,119
it's not i think

1564
00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:00,720
i think that i think it's actually the

1565
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:02,400
same so

1566
00:53:06,790 --> 00:53:04,960
but what so i just want to acknowledge

1567
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:06,800
that that it's more difficult for some

1568
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:08,720
people than others to be able to access

1569
00:53:11,190 --> 00:53:09,680
that so like

1570
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:11,200
i don't want to acknowledge that i don't

1571
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:12,960
want to go there because

1572
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:14,880
in the same way i i'm interested in how

1573
00:53:17,990 --> 00:53:16,559
you respond i'm sorry to be peppering

1574
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:18,000
you with questions

1575
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:19,680
that's okay people hate when i do this

1576
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:21,440
but i do it anyway

1577
00:53:25,510 --> 00:53:24,400
i'm fine with it i drew i drew you into

1578
00:53:27,910 --> 00:53:25,520
the spiritual

1579
00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:27,920
kind of thing and you jumped right on

1580
00:53:30,309 --> 00:53:29,440
there which i think is awesome and

1581
00:53:32,630 --> 00:53:30,319
that's where we

1582
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:32,640
meet and have this kind of synergy so

1583
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:33,520
it's like

1584
00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:36,319
you know if we were to say what you were

1585
00:53:40,309 --> 00:53:37,359
just saying

1586
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:40,319
and then said substituted their

1587
00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:41,440
fundamentalist

1588
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:45,280
christian or radical muslim

1589
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:47,280
or fundamentalist muslim or whatever you

1590
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:49,599
want to say people would take offense

1591
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:50,160
and say

1592
00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:53,760
oh you're saying that muslims are unable

1593
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:54,240
to

1594
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:57,040
access this greater spiritual reality

1595
00:54:00,390 --> 00:53:57,520
that is

1596
00:54:01,190 --> 00:54:00,400
outside of their narrowly confined

1597
00:54:03,109 --> 00:54:01,200
cultural

1598
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:03,119
kind of let me make sure you get my

1599
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:04,559
point because it's like

1600
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:06,160
i don't think there's much of a

1601
00:54:10,349 --> 00:54:08,079
difference and i that's my point

1602
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:10,359
i think culturally we we kind of

1603
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:11,920
compartmentalize and have these

1604
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:13,440
different silos and say

1605
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:16,160
oh yeah you know someone someone hasn't

1606
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:17,760
been exposed to

1607
00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:20,240
which there's an undoubtedly there's a

1608
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,319
reality of the fact that

1609
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:24,000
and i've worked just a little bit with

1610
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:25,440
kids who

1611
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:28,559
are homeless kids and you know talk to

1612
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:29,440
them about

1613
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:32,880
money and about and it's crazy to hear

1614
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:35,200
the kind of belief systems that they

1615
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:37,119
have because that's all they've ever

1616
00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:39,680
experienced so there's a reality to what

1617
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:41,280
you're saying no doubt

1618
00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:44,559
but the ability to expose people to that

1619
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:46,559
and to change that reality and change

1620
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:47,760
that belief system

1621
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:50,400
it isn't this monumental problem and it

1622
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:52,720
certainly isn't framed up as the

1623
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:54,640
problem what you guys are doing is

1624
00:54:56,710 --> 00:54:56,240
framing up the problem is completely

1625
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:56,720
different

1626
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:59,200
and i think what what helps and is

1627
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:00,240
interesting to you and i

1628
00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:02,079
is when we do the same thing we would

1629
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:04,720
never say that about someone who's stuck

1630
00:55:07,990 --> 00:55:06,960
in a belief system that's very limiting

1631
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:08,000
in terms of being

1632
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:09,520
a fundamentalist christian or

1633
00:55:14,069 --> 00:55:12,000
fundamentalist a muslim we'd never say

1634
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:14,079
oh wow you know that's a belief system

1635
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:17,200
problem and that's what we need to

1636
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:20,480
attack well okay i'm

1637
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:23,200
i might say that i don't know but i mean

1638
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:25,200
i was more talking about like

1639
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:26,640
so when you talk about the homeless kids

1640
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:28,079
or whatever i'm talking more about

1641
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:29,920
somebody who has three jobs

1642
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:32,160
because they've grown up in a culture

1643
00:55:34,710 --> 00:55:33,040
that's like

1644
00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:34,720
made them think that they have to have

1645
00:55:38,710 --> 00:55:36,240
like you know three

1646
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:38,720
five ten you know most people don't have

1647
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:39,680
time jobs but

1648
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,520
people that are like working their asses

1649
00:55:45,190 --> 00:55:43,680
off like 80 hours a week

1650
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:45,200
and like they don't have the psychic

1651
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:46,960
space to

1652
00:55:51,270 --> 00:55:49,040
to rest in the same way that when

1653
00:55:53,829 --> 00:55:51,280
someone's really anxious

1654
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:53,839
yes perhaps the problem perhaps the

1655
00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:55,520
problem is solvable by saying

1656
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:57,520
well don't be anxious anymore but if you

1657
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:58,880
say that to someone who's in the middle

1658
00:56:02,309 --> 00:56:00,000
of a panic attack

1659
00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:02,319
it usually isn't very effective so all

1660
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:03,599
i'm saying is that

1661
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:05,760
there are ways to communicate to

1662
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:07,359
different kinds of people

1663
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:08,880
who are in different kinds of life

1664
00:56:11,829 --> 00:56:11,119
situations these kinds of lessons and i

1665
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:11,839
think that

1666
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:14,160
we need to develop those a bit more so

1667
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:15,200
some part of my

1668
00:56:20,150 --> 00:56:18,559
project actually is talking to

1669
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:20,160
like let's break it down to a spiritual

1670
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:22,240
level like and say that these are

1671
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:24,000
in some ways spiritual principles when

1672
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:25,599
we're talk well in a lot of ways

1673
00:56:27,990 --> 00:56:26,880
spiritual principles and we're talking

1674
00:56:30,390 --> 00:56:28,000
about you know

1675
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:30,400
wealth and abundance and understanding

1676
00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:31,760
money differently and seeing the world

1677
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:33,440
differently and all that kind of stuff

1678
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:36,640
i am trying to talk to people that are

1679
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:39,680
have all kinds of obstacles and and ways

1680
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:40,640
of prohibiting

1681
00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:42,240
those conversations from entering their

1682
00:56:46,710 --> 00:56:44,000
communities i.e

1683
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:46,720
marxists leftists all that what i find

1684
00:56:49,829 --> 00:56:48,160
is that a lot of them are actually

1685
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:49,839
really interested in these co

1686
00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:53,200
in these conversations but have felt for

1687
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:55,520
whatever reason that they can't let it

1688
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:57,280
in or they can't embrace it and i know

1689
00:57:00,549 --> 00:56:58,960
that from my own experience

1690
00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:00,559
as being someone who laughed at this

1691
00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:04,000
[\h__\h] his entire life until finally like

1692
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:07,119
three years ago i was like you know you

1693
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:09,520
have a lot going on for you you're that

1694
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:11,440
you know poor dad in the in the book

1695
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:13,040
that you talked about like

1696
00:57:16,870 --> 00:57:15,920
you you went to school you've studied

1697
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:16,880
with some of the

1698
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:18,960
greatest thinkers in the world you have

1699
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:20,880
a lot of really fascinating interesting

1700
00:57:23,829 --> 00:57:21,599
friends

1701
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:23,839
you have a degree of public respect but

1702
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:25,520
you have never had your money in order

1703
00:57:28,789 --> 00:57:26,559
in your life

1704
00:57:29,589 --> 00:57:28,799
why is that and so when i finally dug

1705
00:57:31,349 --> 00:57:29,599
down i was like

1706
00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:31,359
maybe listen to the people that talk

1707
00:57:36,230 --> 00:57:32,960
about how to do that

1708
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:36,240
a little bit more it did change my life

1709
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:39,520
and i and and i still struggle with it

1710
00:57:42,870 --> 00:57:41,200
um i think that there are unconscious

1711
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:42,880
obstacles that are in my way i think

1712
00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:43,920
that i haven't

1713
00:57:47,510 --> 00:57:45,839
been as open as i need to be so i'm

1714
00:57:48,870 --> 00:57:47,520
taking some you know personal

1715
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:48,880
responsibility and

1716
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:51,040
all that in in what i'm presenting as

1717
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:54,480
well here but i just think like

1718
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:58,160
yes go to to point another way it's like

1719
00:57:59,990 --> 00:57:59,680
yeah we can talk to some of these people

1720
00:58:01,910 --> 00:58:00,000
that

1721
00:58:04,150 --> 00:58:01,920
have been really successful and then

1722
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:04,160
some of them they're really successful

1723
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:06,000
but they don't give a [\h__\h] about helping

1724
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:07,440
anybody else at all

1725
00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:09,200
right i mean you talk about these people

1726
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:10,480
all the time on your show there are

1727
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:12,400
plenty of successful powerful rich

1728
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:13,040
people

1729
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:14,480
who really don't give a [\h__\h] about

1730
00:58:16,630 --> 00:58:16,160
grinding everybody else down into the

1731
00:58:18,390 --> 00:58:16,640
ground

1732
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:18,400
so there's another component there that

1733
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:20,640
has to do with compassion and morality

1734
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:22,799
that's not just about success that i

1735
00:58:26,230 --> 00:58:24,960
think is really important to bring these

1736
00:58:27,990 --> 00:58:26,240
conversations so for me

1737
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:28,000
when i see somebody who's struggling and

1738
00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:30,240
struggling with being able to

1739
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:32,960
allow a spiritual concept of money or

1740
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:34,640
any spiritual concept at all for that

1741
00:58:39,430 --> 00:58:36,559
matter into their lives

1742
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:39,440
i want to have the compassion that helps

1743
00:58:42,789 --> 00:58:41,040
them to

1744
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:42,799
to realize that and understand that does

1745
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:45,040
that make sense i hope this seems on

1746
00:58:48,390 --> 00:58:46,799
topic to you because i realized i went a

1747
00:58:50,230 --> 00:58:48,400
lot of different directions there no it

1748
00:58:52,150 --> 00:58:50,240
seems totally on topic and

1749
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:52,160
i would relate it back to i hope people

1750
00:58:56,309 --> 00:58:54,480
are following this conversation or

1751
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:56,319
enjoying this conversation

1752
00:59:02,150 --> 00:58:59,839
as much as i am because i would rewind

1753
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:02,160
to the point where you talked about

1754
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:05,680
the inability of the neo-liberalized

1755
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:08,880
left to connect with

1756
00:59:13,190 --> 00:59:11,599
the spiritual part of that because i

1757
00:59:17,230 --> 00:59:13,200
think you draw out a good point

1758
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:17,240
so if you are a money-focused

1759
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:19,920
materialistically focused on manifesting

1760
00:59:24,309 --> 00:59:21,680
that for yourself

1761
00:59:25,109 --> 00:59:24,319
and you're disconnected from the

1762
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:25,119
spiritual

1763
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:28,319
compassionate part we can all see that

1764
00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:31,920
and point at that and go oh how terrible

1765
00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:32,640
but when we

1766
00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:37,280
see the atheist heather berg usc

1767
00:59:44,390 --> 00:59:41,119
disconnect we're unable to do the same

1768
00:59:48,309 --> 00:59:44,400
we're unable to do the same and say well

1769
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:48,319
your compassion is disconnected from the

1770
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:50,799
deeper spiritual reality

1771
00:59:56,710 --> 00:59:54,000
that's number one and you are therefore

1772
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:56,720
disconnected from this other reality

1773
01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:57,599
which is

1774
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:00,640
the spirituality of manifesting

1775
01:00:04,710 --> 01:00:04,079
in your life so it's like she's on shaky

1776
01:00:08,309 --> 01:00:04,720
ground

1777
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:08,319
on both sides because she's occupying

1778
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:09,280
this kind of

1779
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:12,480
secular atheistic work is

1780
01:00:17,349 --> 01:00:15,839
this detached from any kind of larger

1781
01:00:20,150 --> 01:00:17,359
spiritual context

1782
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:20,160
and then she's also detached from the

1783
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:22,559
reality of manifesting and that's the

1784
01:00:27,190 --> 01:00:23,680
frustrating part

1785
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:27,200
for someone like me yeah

1786
01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:28,880
well i think that that i think it's a

1787
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:30,880
really good point i'm

1788
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:33,200
i'm cringing a little bit because

1789
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:35,040
heather's awesome and she's

1790
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:36,880
a good friend of mine and i think she's

1791
01:00:39,990 --> 01:00:38,400
really smart but

1792
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:40,000
but i understand you're using her as an

1793
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:42,000
example as emblematic of a certain

1794
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:44,240
kind of thinking i think i think that

1795
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:45,040
like the

1796
01:00:51,670 --> 01:00:48,160
i think that yeah again it's like

1797
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:51,680
the the marxist labor focus

1798
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,760
flaw and i wouldn't call those people

1799
01:00:56,230 --> 01:00:55,280
neoliberals but i do also think

1800
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:56,240
neoliberals have

1801
01:01:00,549 --> 01:00:59,359
the same troubles in a lot of ways with

1802
01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:00,559
is that it's not connected to

1803
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:02,559
spirituality for the most part i mean

1804
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:03,359
there are some

1805
01:01:07,750 --> 01:01:06,160
marxists that are doing it um but i

1806
01:01:10,309 --> 01:01:07,760
think that that's one of the major flaws

1807
01:01:11,589 --> 01:01:10,319
what i'm interested in by the way just

1808
01:01:14,470 --> 01:01:11,599
as a side note

1809
01:01:16,069 --> 01:01:14,480
when i talk about politics or when i

1810
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:16,079
talk about politics with marx says when

1811
01:01:20,069 --> 01:01:17,680
i talk about it with socialists

1812
01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:20,079
what i think that they do really good is

1813
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:21,920
talk about the rights dimension

1814
01:01:28,309 --> 01:01:25,200
really well so they talk about

1815
01:01:31,670 --> 01:01:28,319
tactics and how and and

1816
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:31,680
why human rights matter for everybody

1817
01:01:34,950 --> 01:01:34,160
that to me is like the gift of that kind

1818
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:34,960
of thinking

1819
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:36,960
because i think that like we need to

1820
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:38,079
talk about rights

1821
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:39,760
and we need to talk about culture and we

1822
01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:41,920
need to talk about economics

1823
01:01:45,270 --> 01:01:44,000
all in really coherent and thoughtful

1824
01:01:48,390 --> 01:01:45,280
ways um

1825
01:01:49,510 --> 01:01:48,400
and so i think that um the marxist talk

1826
01:01:51,910 --> 01:01:49,520
about the rights

1827
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:51,920
aspect really really well so something

1828
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:53,280
they're really good at talking about is

1829
01:01:55,349 --> 01:01:54,640
like it doesn't really matter if you

1830
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:55,359
like

1831
01:02:03,270 --> 01:01:59,200
in or whatever

1832
01:02:04,870 --> 01:02:03,280
but you do but you do need to grant them

1833
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:04,880
the same kinds of human rights as

1834
01:02:07,829 --> 01:02:05,760
everybody else

1835
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:07,839
and their focus is i think is a little

1836
01:02:11,029 --> 01:02:10,000
off in that they locate it so squarely

1837
01:02:13,270 --> 01:02:11,039
in labor

1838
01:02:14,309 --> 01:02:13,280
um and labor rights but i do think that

1839
01:02:15,990 --> 01:02:14,319
that's something that they're really

1840
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:16,000
good at and have developed a lot over

1841
01:02:19,029 --> 01:02:17,599
time so that's why i'm interested in

1842
01:02:20,069 --> 01:02:19,039
them i don't expect them to get the

1843
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:20,079
spiritual principles

1844
01:02:23,670 --> 01:02:22,000
right and therefore their other

1845
01:02:25,430 --> 01:02:23,680
perspectives are going to be skewed and

1846
01:02:26,470 --> 01:02:25,440
not necessarily up to snuff but

1847
01:02:28,309 --> 01:02:26,480
that's why i try to have those

1848
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:28,319
conversations with them about them and

1849
01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:29,680
like i said

1850
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:32,000
i find that they're all actually rather

1851
01:02:34,870 --> 01:02:33,039
interested in them

1852
01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:34,880
and sometimes i encounter somebody who's

1853
01:02:37,349 --> 01:02:36,480
just like no that's [\h__\h] and that's

1854
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:37,359
stupid

1855
01:02:40,950 --> 01:02:39,200
and you know i just roll with it because

1856
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:40,960
i'm like okay this is what a lot of

1857
01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:42,160
people say this is

1858
01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:44,880
you know your weird dumb atheist

1859
01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:45,520
arguments

1860
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:48,240
are not they're nothing new to me and

1861
01:02:51,750 --> 01:02:49,680
they're not like hurting my feelings or

1862
01:02:54,549 --> 01:02:51,760
whatever i just think that they're wrong

1863
01:02:55,990 --> 01:02:54,559
and you know but i do find that they're

1864
01:02:57,910 --> 01:02:56,000
they're interested in those questions

1865
01:02:58,870 --> 01:02:57,920
they're just developing that aspect of

1866
01:03:02,470 --> 01:02:58,880
themselves

1867
01:03:04,630 --> 01:03:02,480
and so i'm just i'm willing to

1868
01:03:06,870 --> 01:03:04,640
i'm willing to allow people to like be

1869
01:03:09,589 --> 01:03:06,880
in a developmental process

1870
01:03:11,029 --> 01:03:09,599
you know that's that's all so i don't

1871
01:03:13,510 --> 01:03:11,039
mind when someone

1872
01:03:16,309 --> 01:03:13,520
is like working on the right sphere of

1873
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:16,319
our lives and tactics and labor laws and

1874
01:03:19,190 --> 01:03:17,520
all that kind of stuff to improve the

1875
01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:19,200
lives of others

1876
01:03:23,190 --> 01:03:21,599
as long as they're willing to engage in

1877
01:03:25,430 --> 01:03:23,200
a curious conversation

1878
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:25,440
about the spiritual stuff because i find

1879
01:03:29,990 --> 01:03:26,720
that that develops

1880
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:30,000
in them you know i i just want to say

1881
01:03:33,270 --> 01:03:31,920
one thing real quickly about my my

1882
01:03:35,109 --> 01:03:33,280
sister i don't really talk about

1883
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:35,119
my family that much publicly just

1884
01:03:38,230 --> 01:03:36,880
because people give me so much [\h__\h]

1885
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:38,240
online and in the world that i don't

1886
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:39,599
feel like

1887
01:03:43,829 --> 01:03:42,160
letting them you know get like

1888
01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:43,839
publicizing them too much so then they

1889
01:03:49,029 --> 01:03:45,039
get [\h__\h] but like

1890
01:03:51,349 --> 01:03:49,039
you know years ago um my sister

1891
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:51,359
you know she married a catholic so of

1892
01:03:53,349 --> 01:03:52,079
course they were

1893
01:03:54,470 --> 01:03:53,359
you know someone was raised catholic so

1894
01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:54,480
of course they were like staunch

1895
01:03:57,990 --> 01:03:55,280
atheists

1896
01:04:00,230 --> 01:03:58,000
and i told them about rudolph stein and

1897
01:04:03,349 --> 01:04:00,240
anthroposophy this is a long time ago

1898
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:03,359
i sort of put i i brought it up and she

1899
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:04,240
laughed at me

1900
01:04:08,470 --> 01:04:07,440
i mean laughed in my face and she

1901
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:08,480
brought her husband in

1902
01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:10,079
and he came in the room and he laughed

1903
01:04:15,750 --> 01:04:12,240
at me too he was like what that's

1904
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:15,760
crazy and stupid years later

1905
01:04:20,230 --> 01:04:17,280
she works for an anthroposophical

1906
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:20,240
organization now and he does too

1907
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:24,160
so meaning like i think that that

1908
01:04:26,549 --> 01:04:24,960
process

1909
01:04:27,990 --> 01:04:26,559
it can happen and really separate and i

1910
01:04:29,829 --> 01:04:28,000
never pushed them again

1911
01:04:31,829 --> 01:04:29,839
you know and now and i always think of

1912
01:04:35,109 --> 01:04:31,839
myself now who's laughing you know but

1913
01:04:37,430 --> 01:04:35,119
i don't i think that that process can be

1914
01:04:39,029 --> 01:04:37,440
very slow but i do think that these

1915
01:04:41,029 --> 01:04:39,039
conversations are really really

1916
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:41,039
important and i think that like

1917
01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:42,640
when they happen with a spirit in a

1918
01:04:46,549 --> 01:04:44,720
spirit of okay what is this labor

1919
01:04:47,190 --> 01:04:46,559
studies person saying that's resonating

1920
01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:47,200
with me

1921
01:04:51,109 --> 01:04:49,039
what can i give back to the conversation

1922
01:04:52,150 --> 01:04:51,119
that maybe they haven't thought about

1923
01:04:54,549 --> 01:04:52,160
you know i think that that's really

1924
01:04:56,950 --> 01:04:54,559
helpful i mean i realize i'm like taking

1925
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:56,960
skeptico down a route of like

1926
01:05:00,150 --> 01:04:58,720
if we all just like have really sweet

1927
01:05:01,430 --> 01:05:00,160
conversations with each other everything

1928
01:05:02,390 --> 01:05:01,440
will be fun and i don't think that's

1929
01:05:04,549 --> 01:05:02,400
true either

1930
01:05:06,549 --> 01:05:04,559
but i just wanna i just wanna bring that

1931
01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:06,559
to you i think that's great

1932
01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:10,480
it's true and it's consistent with

1933
01:05:16,630 --> 01:05:13,520
who you are and what you do on your show

1934
01:05:20,230 --> 01:05:16,640
because it's hard to do that

1935
01:05:22,950 --> 01:05:20,240
and maintain intellectual integrity

1936
01:05:24,630 --> 01:05:22,960
i admire that so i i appreciate you

1937
01:05:26,950 --> 01:05:24,640
engaging that dialogue so

1938
01:05:28,390 --> 01:05:26,960
let me then switch to kind of one other

1939
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:28,400
because i think

1940
01:05:31,829 --> 01:05:29,760
i didn't really know where we were going

1941
01:05:32,789 --> 01:05:31,839
to go and i guess i kind of ranted a

1942
01:05:34,870 --> 01:05:32,799
little bit there and

1943
01:05:35,990 --> 01:05:34,880
you did a good job of kind of grinding

1944
01:05:38,470 --> 01:05:36,000
grounding it back

1945
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:38,480
to what it's really all about which is

1946
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:40,000
this disconnection

1947
01:05:46,150 --> 01:05:43,680
with these spiritual realities that

1948
01:05:47,589 --> 01:05:46,160
we know are are true because no matter

1949
01:05:51,270 --> 01:05:47,599
where you approach them

1950
01:05:54,549 --> 01:05:51,280
philosophically scientifically whatever

1951
01:05:58,069 --> 01:05:54,559
we were forced to move past this

1952
01:06:01,349 --> 01:05:58,079
crazy atheistic materialism that is the

1953
01:06:02,829 --> 01:06:01,359
standard play for everybody so i'd shift

1954
01:06:06,549 --> 01:06:02,839
that discussion

1955
01:06:08,150 --> 01:06:06,559
similarly as it goes into conspiracy

1956
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,160
because that's something i've been

1957
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:10,720
dragged into for the last couple years

1958
01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:12,880
and people really don't like when i go

1959
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:14,880
there and

1960
01:06:19,349 --> 01:06:18,480
really kind of they're just not able to

1961
01:06:21,349 --> 01:06:19,359
go there

1962
01:06:22,470 --> 01:06:21,359
in the back of their mind they think

1963
01:06:25,510 --> 01:06:22,480
there's some

1964
01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:25,520
underlying truth they suppose to the

1965
01:06:30,069 --> 01:06:26,640
fact that

1966
01:06:33,109 --> 01:06:30,079
things aren't really what they seem that

1967
01:06:35,910 --> 01:06:33,119
social engineering really is at play at

1968
01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:35,920
every turn but they don't really want to

1969
01:06:39,589 --> 01:06:36,480
go there

1970
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:39,599
and they just assume laugh it off in the

1971
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:41,440
same way that you're talking about

1972
01:06:45,109 --> 01:06:43,520
i love the story about the woman you

1973
01:06:46,789 --> 01:06:45,119
were talking to the genie

1974
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:46,799
raped her so she can't have sex with her

1975
01:06:51,109 --> 01:06:48,240
husband the first reaction is to

1976
01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:51,119
laugh ha-ha-ha-ha and then both eyes

1977
01:06:55,270 --> 01:06:52,319
meet you're like

1978
01:06:55,910 --> 01:06:55,280
is there any potential reality to that

1979
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:55,920
at all

1980
01:07:00,549 --> 01:06:58,640
and i think the same thing goes on with

1981
01:07:02,870 --> 01:07:00,559
the conspiracy stuff

1982
01:07:04,710 --> 01:07:02,880
so if we want to talk about you know

1983
01:07:06,789 --> 01:07:04,720
feminism is a great place to

1984
01:07:08,789 --> 01:07:06,799
jump into it because i think it connects

1985
01:07:11,589 --> 01:07:08,799
to a lot of the other

1986
01:07:12,390 --> 01:07:11,599
uh social movement interests that you

1987
01:07:14,630 --> 01:07:12,400
have but

1988
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:14,640
i passed along to you because i think

1989
01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:17,200
it's so significant so central to this

1990
01:07:21,910 --> 01:07:18,880
you know the glorious steinham thing and

1991
01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:21,920
i always bring up joe atwell because

1992
01:07:25,510 --> 01:07:24,160
i i love joe he's just a great guy i

1993
01:07:27,750 --> 01:07:25,520
think he's so smart

1994
01:07:29,510 --> 01:07:27,760
and he's drilled into some of this stuff

1995
01:07:30,390 --> 01:07:29,520
in some ways that other people haven't

1996
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:30,400
but

1997
01:07:35,510 --> 01:07:33,440
gloria steinem is cia you know right

1998
01:07:37,510 --> 01:07:35,520
and that's right that's like not

1999
01:07:41,349 --> 01:07:37,520
conspiracy theory that's like

2000
01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:41,359
a real feminist finally investigated her

2001
01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:43,520
and really drilled into it and

2002
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:44,400
interviewed her

2003
01:07:47,990 --> 01:07:46,880
and nailed her on it and she had to say

2004
01:07:52,470 --> 01:07:48,000
yeah well

2005
01:07:54,230 --> 01:07:52,480
i was cia but hey i had to be because

2006
01:07:56,069 --> 01:07:54,240
you know the feminist cause was too

2007
01:07:57,670 --> 01:07:56,079
important and you know and a lot of

2008
01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:57,680
people that was that was enough you know

2009
01:08:01,670 --> 01:07:58,559
that was like

2010
01:08:04,069 --> 01:08:01,680
oh yeah it was too important and if

2011
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:04,079
that's the only way she could do it then

2012
01:08:08,470 --> 01:08:06,799
hooray for that and we all kind of get

2013
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:08,480
there because it's like yeah there was a

2014
01:08:12,390 --> 01:08:09,200
huge

2015
01:08:14,069 --> 01:08:12,400
problem there in our society but then

2016
01:08:15,670 --> 01:08:14,079
when you fast forward and i sent you

2017
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:15,680
this link and you go right

2018
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:18,319
oh but she's still at it and now she's

2019
01:08:22,070 --> 01:08:20,159
at it you know you have a syrian

2020
01:08:24,309 --> 01:08:22,080
background now she's at it in the

2021
01:08:28,630 --> 01:08:24,319
strangest cia

2022
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:28,640
way again where she's protesting against

2023
01:08:34,470 --> 01:08:32,239
the rights of women in syria

2024
01:08:37,030 --> 01:08:34,480
you know and it's like it sounds good

2025
01:08:39,990 --> 01:08:37,040
and then you take a step back and you go

2026
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:40,000
yeah but is it syria more progressive

2027
01:08:43,349 --> 01:08:40,560
than

2028
01:08:45,269 --> 01:08:43,359
just about any other state that's around

2029
01:08:46,709 --> 01:08:45,279
it any other arab state that's around it

2030
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:46,719
and isn't syria

2031
01:08:53,349 --> 01:08:49,920
engaged in this death spiral battle with

2032
01:08:56,550 --> 01:08:53,359
isis who wants to burkaize every woman

2033
01:08:59,590 --> 01:08:56,560
and just completely destroy their rights

2034
01:09:00,950 --> 01:08:59,600
isn't that a curious position for gloria

2035
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:00,960
steinem to take

2036
01:09:05,669 --> 01:09:03,279
and then taking it outside of that

2037
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:05,679
narrow context right there

2038
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:08,400
what does that say to to the extent to

2039
01:09:13,030 --> 01:09:09,600
which

2040
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:13,040
social engineering right is at play

2041
01:09:16,149 --> 01:09:15,679
with all this stuff where we think we're

2042
01:09:19,189 --> 01:09:16,159
work

2043
01:09:22,470 --> 01:09:19,199
there's so so much of that going on

2044
01:09:26,229 --> 01:09:24,709
if people don't want if people don't

2045
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:26,239
want to jump into

2046
01:09:33,269 --> 01:09:29,520
grand ca like huge conspiracy

2047
01:09:36,149 --> 01:09:33,279
take the first step which is

2048
01:09:37,990 --> 01:09:36,159
have the thought okay so here's

2049
01:09:39,510 --> 01:09:38,000
something that i think is progressive

2050
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:39,520
whether it's feminism

2051
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,040
or whether it's you know some

2052
01:09:46,870 --> 01:09:45,520
like some sort of some sort of identity

2053
01:09:50,149 --> 01:09:46,880
politics or another

2054
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:50,159
um think about how

2055
01:09:55,669 --> 01:09:53,600
people who are not really great people

2056
01:09:57,110 --> 01:09:55,679
could use that against you just think

2057
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:57,120
about it

2058
01:10:03,189 --> 01:10:00,159
they will

2059
01:10:05,030 --> 01:10:03,199
because people and people in power

2060
01:10:06,950 --> 01:10:05,040
and with the institutions in power in

2061
01:10:07,910 --> 01:10:06,960
alignment with as you've talked about on

2062
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:07,920
your show before

2063
01:10:14,470 --> 01:10:11,120
forces including spiritual forces that

2064
01:10:16,709 --> 01:10:14,480
are you know engaged in our behaviors

2065
01:10:19,990 --> 01:10:16,719
and our actions they will use

2066
01:10:21,669 --> 01:10:20,000
anything they can against us and one of

2067
01:10:22,390 --> 01:10:21,679
the best ways to do that is stuff that

2068
01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:22,400
looks really

2069
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:25,440
nice on paper i'm the feminist example

2070
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:27,840
is really personal to me

2071
01:10:31,590 --> 01:10:29,280
not because of the syria thing although

2072
01:10:34,470 --> 01:10:31,600
that's bad enough with gloria steinem

2073
01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:34,480
but because of being in communities of

2074
01:10:38,550 --> 01:10:36,000
sex workers right

2075
01:10:39,669 --> 01:10:38,560
so earlier this year there was a

2076
01:10:41,510 --> 01:10:39,679
bipartisan

2077
01:10:43,350 --> 01:10:41,520
law but there was a but there was a law

2078
01:10:45,430 --> 01:10:43,360
passed by bipartisan effort

2079
01:10:47,110 --> 01:10:45,440
called the fight online sex trafficking

2080
01:10:49,669 --> 01:10:47,120
act or the stop enabling sex

2081
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:49,679
trafficking act foster cesta the sort of

2082
01:10:53,270 --> 01:10:50,320
combined

2083
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:53,280
combination of two versions of this bill

2084
01:10:56,390 --> 01:10:53,920
and

2085
01:10:57,990 --> 01:10:56,400
everybody voted against it except for or

2086
01:10:59,669 --> 01:10:58,000
everybody voted for it in the senate for

2087
01:11:01,270 --> 01:10:59,679
example except for two people ron wyden

2088
01:11:02,630 --> 01:11:01,280
and rand paul

2089
01:11:04,149 --> 01:11:02,640
and the whole thing was like well we

2090
01:11:06,070 --> 01:11:04,159
need to stop human trafficking we need

2091
01:11:08,390 --> 01:11:06,080
to stop sex trafficking we need to build

2092
01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:08,400
great i want to stop sex trafficking and

2093
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:10,320
human trafficking too

2094
01:11:16,470 --> 01:11:13,600
but as a sex worker i know that

2095
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:16,480
the law conflates human trafficking with

2096
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:17,600
consensual

2097
01:11:21,430 --> 01:11:19,760
sex work okay or sex work that people

2098
01:11:22,149 --> 01:11:21,440
have decided to engage in for a variety

2099
01:11:24,709 --> 01:11:22,159
of reasons

2100
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:24,719
so that's number one but let's take it

2101
01:11:29,830 --> 01:11:25,679
more to the sort of

2102
01:11:33,430 --> 01:11:29,840
skeptico angle here the meat of the law

2103
01:11:36,550 --> 01:11:33,440
was that the government can seize

2104
01:11:37,830 --> 01:11:36,560
or shut down any website for the

2105
01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:37,840
behavior of its

2106
01:11:45,350 --> 01:11:41,280
users so if on craigslist

2107
01:11:47,110 --> 01:11:45,360
someone advertised for prostitution

2108
01:11:49,270 --> 01:11:47,120
which the government conflates with sex

2109
01:11:50,390 --> 01:11:49,280
trafficking then the government can shut

2110
01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:50,400
craigslist down

2111
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:52,400
even though craigslist had no control

2112
01:11:57,590 --> 01:11:55,280
over what the user did on its own site

2113
01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:57,600
so through this law that looks like it's

2114
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:59,440
helping victims of human trafficking

2115
01:12:01,990 --> 01:12:01,199
under the guise of a certain form of

2116
01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:02,000
feminism

2117
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:04,560
which was supported by like amy schumer

2118
01:12:06,550 --> 01:12:05,840
and seth meyers and all these

2119
01:12:10,550 --> 01:12:06,560
celebrities

2120
01:12:13,750 --> 01:12:10,560
who are just complete block heads

2121
01:12:16,630 --> 01:12:13,760
now the government has cart launch

2122
01:12:17,669 --> 01:12:16,640
to shut down any website with something

2123
01:12:20,149 --> 01:12:17,679
that is beyond

2124
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:20,159
that website you the website masters

2125
01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:21,600
controller the owners the website's

2126
01:12:25,110 --> 01:12:22,560
control

2127
01:12:26,790 --> 01:12:25,120
and that they can they can it is so

2128
01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:26,800
broadly defined that they can do it

2129
01:12:29,189 --> 01:12:28,239
whenever they want to any website

2130
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:29,199
whatsoever

2131
01:12:32,390 --> 01:12:31,199
which has had a massive effect on like a

2132
01:12:36,790 --> 01:12:32,400
lot of different

2133
01:12:39,910 --> 01:12:36,800
i'm using that as a really recent

2134
01:12:40,630 --> 01:12:39,920
impression example of how these kinds of

2135
01:12:42,550 --> 01:12:40,640
things happen

2136
01:12:45,350 --> 01:12:42,560
it can sound like the best law in the

2137
01:12:47,830 --> 01:12:45,360
world right and it'll be backed up by an

2138
01:12:51,030 --> 01:12:47,840
amazing ideology of feminism

2139
01:12:52,229 --> 01:12:51,040
and yet what is it

2140
01:12:54,070 --> 01:12:52,239
what's actually happening there what

2141
01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:54,080
does that mean and so you get the same

2142
01:12:59,750 --> 01:12:56,239
thing with the gloria steinem [\h__\h]

2143
01:13:01,830 --> 01:12:59,760
or how about like betty for dan you know

2144
01:13:03,669 --> 01:13:01,840
when she was like you know feminists we

2145
01:13:06,950 --> 01:13:03,679
aren't supporting israel enough

2146
01:13:08,709 --> 01:13:06,960
we have a lot of israeli people that

2147
01:13:11,350 --> 01:13:08,719
a lot of israeli women that we need to

2148
01:13:13,510 --> 01:13:11,360
support because the palestinians well

2149
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:13,520
they're really into burkas and all that

2150
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:14,480
kind of stuff

2151
01:13:17,830 --> 01:13:16,320
now i'm not going to get enmeshed in the

2152
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:17,840
whole burka no burka

2153
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:20,960
argument or a you know hijab no hijab

2154
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:23,600
argument but i am going to say like that

2155
01:13:26,390 --> 01:13:25,920
was also calculated and she pulled a lot

2156
01:13:29,030 --> 01:13:26,400
of

2157
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:29,040
prominent feminists into that into that

2158
01:13:32,470 --> 01:13:30,400
political realm

2159
01:13:33,750 --> 01:13:32,480
so these kinds of things are happening

2160
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:33,760
often and

2161
01:13:39,750 --> 01:13:37,360
all the time and and it to me

2162
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:39,760
it's like you just have to keep that

2163
01:13:42,070 --> 01:13:40,810
spinning in your head

2164
01:13:44,550 --> 01:13:42,080
[Music]

2165
01:13:45,189 --> 01:13:44,560
what could be what could be here that

2166
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:45,199
might be

2167
01:13:48,470 --> 01:13:47,520
used against me in this progressive

2168
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:48,480
cause

2169
01:13:55,350 --> 01:13:52,560
you sound like yesterday it was like

2170
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:55,360
rob lowe the celebrity on twitter said

2171
01:14:00,709 --> 01:13:57,360
yesterday as of this recording said

2172
01:14:02,149 --> 01:14:00,719
uh i saw jeremy corbyn call theresa may

2173
01:14:05,350 --> 01:14:02,159
a stupid woman

2174
01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:05,360
and so whatever the hell you think about

2175
01:14:09,189 --> 01:14:08,719
jeremy corbyn or theresa may the entire

2176
01:14:11,830 --> 01:14:09,199
like

2177
01:14:13,750 --> 01:14:11,840
uk news media seized on that because

2178
01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:13,760
jeremy corbyn wasn't a feminist enough

2179
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:15,199
because he called theresa may a stupid

2180
01:14:17,189 --> 01:14:15,760
woman

2181
01:14:19,030 --> 01:14:17,199
again i don't give a [\h__\h] about what

2182
01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:19,040
your feelings are about brexit or

2183
01:14:22,070 --> 01:14:21,280
or theresa may in this case i mean i do

2184
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:22,080
care but

2185
01:14:25,830 --> 01:14:23,920
and i have my own opinions on it but

2186
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:25,840
it's like

2187
01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:28,800
that it's so easily positioned people

2188
01:14:32,630 --> 01:14:30,480
can seize these things so that's the

2189
01:14:33,910 --> 01:14:32,640
that's just the first level of things

2190
01:14:36,709 --> 01:14:33,920
then you bring it up to the level that

2191
01:14:38,709 --> 01:14:36,719
you talk about on the show which is like

2192
01:14:39,830 --> 01:14:38,719
there aren't people that are really

2193
01:14:42,149 --> 01:14:39,840
calculatedly

2194
01:14:43,510 --> 01:14:42,159
like trying to make these decisions and

2195
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:43,520
bring these kinds of things out and then

2196
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:44,880
you take it up to the next level

2197
01:14:48,149 --> 01:14:46,800
if you really want to go there and talk

2198
01:14:49,030 --> 01:14:48,159
about well there are probably people

2199
01:14:50,390 --> 01:14:49,040
behind them too

2200
01:14:52,950 --> 01:14:50,400
and then take it up to the next level

2201
01:14:56,070 --> 01:14:52,960
and talk about forces spiritual forces

2202
01:14:56,870 --> 01:14:56,080
whatever you want to say but i think the

2203
01:14:59,590 --> 01:14:56,880
doorway in

2204
01:15:00,390 --> 01:14:59,600
is like that any reasonable person can

2205
01:15:03,510 --> 01:15:00,400
engage with

2206
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:03,520
is what might be what might be here

2207
01:15:07,430 --> 01:15:05,280
that we should think about i don't think

2208
01:15:08,229 --> 01:15:07,440
a russia gate thing is a very obvious

2209
01:15:10,550 --> 01:15:08,239
example

2210
01:15:11,990 --> 01:15:10,560
that more and more people i think are

2211
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:12,000
picking up on like

2212
01:15:15,430 --> 01:15:13,840
there might be some there might be some

2213
01:15:16,870 --> 01:15:15,440
problems with this whole like russia

2214
01:15:19,110 --> 01:15:16,880
russia russia narrative

2215
01:15:21,030 --> 01:15:19,120
interfering with the election i've been

2216
01:15:24,790 --> 01:15:21,040
slow to come around to

2217
01:15:28,310 --> 01:15:24,800
the trump bashing kind of thing because

2218
01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:28,320
trump so represents this

2219
01:15:35,350 --> 01:15:31,360
possibility this dream that

2220
01:15:38,310 --> 01:15:35,360
someone outside of the system really can

2221
01:15:39,110 --> 01:15:38,320
be outside of the system and not right a

2222
01:15:42,630 --> 01:15:39,120
counterfeit

2223
01:15:43,510 --> 01:15:42,640
which if you look deeply as i have just

2224
01:15:46,870 --> 01:15:43,520
recently

2225
01:15:48,149 --> 01:15:46,880
into the crazy sexual [\h__\h] quote-unquote

2226
01:15:50,950 --> 01:15:48,159
modeling agency

2227
01:15:51,990 --> 01:15:50,960
where he's bringing over 12 to 15 year

2228
01:15:55,270 --> 01:15:52,000
old girls

2229
01:15:58,790 --> 01:15:55,280
and applying for these special visas

2230
01:16:01,750 --> 01:15:58,800
then his association with epstein

2231
01:16:02,709 --> 01:16:01,760
which is much deeper and much more well

2232
01:16:05,910 --> 01:16:02,719
established than

2233
01:16:08,229 --> 01:16:05,920
anyone wants to acknowledge in the media

2234
01:16:10,550 --> 01:16:08,239
he's right in the middle of that

2235
01:16:11,669 --> 01:16:10,560
whole sex thing and it could be

2236
01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:11,679
different for him

2237
01:16:16,550 --> 01:16:14,640
than the pedo thing that's going on or

2238
01:16:18,470 --> 01:16:16,560
different than the pizzagate thing

2239
01:16:20,070 --> 01:16:18,480
or different than the satanic ritual

2240
01:16:21,669 --> 01:16:20,080
abuse thing which is

2241
01:16:23,990 --> 01:16:21,679
something else we could pull apart

2242
01:16:24,950 --> 01:16:24,000
because you know you take satanic ritual

2243
01:16:27,110 --> 01:16:24,960
abuse

2244
01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:27,120
and look at how that's processed through

2245
01:16:30,390 --> 01:16:28,320
the society

2246
01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:30,400
as i throw those words out there's a lot

2247
01:16:34,790 --> 01:16:32,560
of people out there i know who are going

2248
01:16:36,790 --> 01:16:34,800
well you mean the satanic panic right

2249
01:16:37,270 --> 01:16:36,800
you mean the thing that didn't really

2250
01:16:40,470 --> 01:16:37,280
happen

2251
01:16:41,750 --> 01:16:40,480
right no go three layers deeper and

2252
01:16:44,950 --> 01:16:41,760
you'll see that

2253
01:16:47,430 --> 01:16:44,960
the children showed up with stds

2254
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:47,440
these young preschool children show up

2255
01:16:50,470 --> 01:16:48,400
with stds

2256
01:16:51,910 --> 01:16:50,480
all the ones at the preschool or a large

2257
01:16:54,630 --> 01:16:51,920
number of them at the preschool

2258
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:54,640
how does that happen they show up with

2259
01:16:59,030 --> 01:16:55,440
terrors

2260
01:17:02,149 --> 01:16:59,040
anal tears and other sexual injuries

2261
01:17:05,669 --> 01:17:02,159
well how does that happen so again but

2262
01:17:08,950 --> 01:17:05,679
the narrative that needed to happen was

2263
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:08,960
satanic panic there's no such thing as

2264
01:17:15,189 --> 01:17:12,080
satanic ritual sexual abuse

2265
01:17:17,750 --> 01:17:15,199
disregard the fact that we have it

2266
01:17:19,430 --> 01:17:17,760
documented here and here and here and

2267
01:17:22,070 --> 01:17:19,440
with this cop and with that

2268
01:17:23,110 --> 01:17:22,080
detective and all over the place it

2269
01:17:26,229 --> 01:17:23,120
becomes

2270
01:17:28,630 --> 01:17:26,239
a rewrite of reality and

2271
01:17:29,669 --> 01:17:28,640
the reason i go there to the satanic

2272
01:17:33,270 --> 01:17:29,679
ritual abuse

2273
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:33,280
thing is because it does launch us

2274
01:17:36,550 --> 01:17:36,000
as you described kind of three layers

2275
01:17:40,310 --> 01:17:36,560
deep

2276
01:17:42,870 --> 01:17:40,320
right yeah yeah well i mean the satanic

2277
01:17:44,070 --> 01:17:42,880
panic and satanic ritual of you saying

2278
01:17:46,390 --> 01:17:44,080
it's worse than you

2279
01:17:47,350 --> 01:17:46,400
say because actually both those things

2280
01:17:49,350 --> 01:17:47,360
are true

2281
01:17:50,870 --> 01:17:49,360
which is that some of it was [\h__\h]

2282
01:17:53,030 --> 01:17:50,880
and some of it's not

2283
01:17:54,470 --> 01:17:53,040
and so they use the stuff that's

2284
01:17:56,630 --> 01:17:54,480
[\h__\h]

2285
01:17:57,750 --> 01:17:56,640
to convince us that this stuff that's

2286
01:18:03,990 --> 01:17:57,760
real

2287
01:18:05,990 --> 01:18:04,000
and then the stuff that's [\h__\h] ends

2288
01:18:09,030 --> 01:18:06,000
up hurting a lot of innocent people

2289
01:18:10,550 --> 01:18:09,040
and it allows them to control

2290
01:18:13,030 --> 01:18:10,560
narratives about the occult and the

2291
01:18:15,510 --> 01:18:13,040
paranormal and spirituality in our

2292
01:18:17,590 --> 01:18:15,520
culture that any investigation of magic

2293
01:18:19,430 --> 01:18:17,600
or the occult or spirituality is like

2294
01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:19,440
going to be satanic and all that kind of

2295
01:18:24,070 --> 01:18:21,120
stuff so

2296
01:18:25,750 --> 01:18:24,080
it's leveraged in so many ways and it

2297
01:18:26,550 --> 01:18:25,760
and i think that the problem that people

2298
01:18:28,630 --> 01:18:26,560
have

2299
01:18:29,910 --> 01:18:28,640
is like they'll go to one side or the

2300
01:18:30,550 --> 01:18:29,920
other they'll be like oh that was all

2301
01:18:34,630 --> 01:18:30,560
[\h__\h]

2302
01:18:36,229 --> 01:18:34,640
know i'm sure that most kids who played

2303
01:18:37,910 --> 01:18:36,239
dungeons and dragons in the 80s were not

2304
01:18:41,430 --> 01:18:37,920
[\h__\h] up by it right

2305
01:18:43,510 --> 01:18:41,440
like some of them were right or like

2306
01:18:45,030 --> 01:18:43,520
some of that some of the abuse stuff

2307
01:18:47,510 --> 01:18:45,040
some of those abuse narratives

2308
01:18:49,270 --> 01:18:47,520
were [\h__\h] and they ended up putting

2309
01:18:52,790 --> 01:18:49,280
innocent people in jail

2310
01:18:54,790 --> 01:18:52,800
and some of it was real legitimate

2311
01:18:56,310 --> 01:18:54,800
cover-up stuff and when you look into it

2312
01:18:57,030 --> 01:18:56,320
and you hear people talking about it

2313
01:18:59,110 --> 01:18:57,040
it's like

2314
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:59,120
well some of that [\h__\h] was definitely

2315
01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:00,239
going on

2316
01:19:08,790 --> 01:19:06,960
you i don't think you have to stretch

2317
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:08,800
too far back into history to just be

2318
01:19:14,870 --> 01:19:11,280
like well we have a lot of evidence

2319
01:19:17,590 --> 01:19:14,880
that you know throughout history

2320
01:19:17,910 --> 01:19:17,600
people you know in governments and of

2321
01:19:22,630 --> 01:19:17,920
high

2322
01:19:25,270 --> 01:19:22,640
you know

2323
01:19:26,790 --> 01:19:25,280
really violent sexual rituals within

2324
01:19:28,950 --> 01:19:26,800
with people who did not ask to be

2325
01:19:30,630 --> 01:19:28,960
involved in those violent sexual rituals

2326
01:19:32,149 --> 01:19:30,640
i don't think anybody would dispute that

2327
01:19:34,470 --> 01:19:32,159
so the idea that somehow it doesn't

2328
01:19:37,590 --> 01:19:34,480
exist in our time is so naive

2329
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:37,600
but i just want to say that like the

2330
01:19:41,350 --> 01:19:39,679
the picture is really complicated so

2331
01:19:42,470 --> 01:19:41,360
what people do is they go to one side or

2332
01:19:45,189 --> 01:19:42,480
the other they're like oh

2333
01:19:46,470 --> 01:19:45,199
it's all real no it all all that satanic

2334
01:19:48,390 --> 01:19:46,480
ritual abuse stuff that's

2335
01:19:50,070 --> 01:19:48,400
the grand narrative of our culture or

2336
01:19:52,390 --> 01:19:50,080
they say oh no it's all stupid

2337
01:19:54,550 --> 01:19:52,400
and it takes a lot more effort than that

2338
01:19:55,990 --> 01:19:54,560
unfortunately

2339
01:19:57,669 --> 01:19:56,000
i'm with you and i think you make a

2340
01:20:01,590 --> 01:19:57,679
great point but let's

2341
01:20:05,110 --> 01:20:01,600
go down the path of it's the grand

2342
01:20:07,990 --> 01:20:05,120
political social engineering narrative

2343
01:20:09,110 --> 01:20:08,000
of our time thing for a minute because i

2344
01:20:12,229 --> 01:20:09,120
really don't think

2345
01:20:15,430 --> 01:20:12,239
that gets enough play if trump

2346
01:20:19,189 --> 01:20:15,440
is our current sexual blackmail

2347
01:20:20,950 --> 01:20:19,199
roy cohen kind of figure which if people

2348
01:20:23,189 --> 01:20:20,960
don't know

2349
01:20:25,669 --> 01:20:23,199
who roy cohn is you know just go

2350
01:20:29,510 --> 01:20:25,679
investigate but admitted that

2351
01:20:31,910 --> 01:20:29,520
sexual blackmail was his political

2352
01:20:32,790 --> 01:20:31,920
tool of choice and it has been for a lot

2353
01:20:35,510 --> 01:20:32,800
of people and

2354
01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:35,520
j edgar hoover was politically

2355
01:20:40,070 --> 01:20:37,360
blackmailed for his

2356
01:20:41,669 --> 01:20:40,080
gayness and his desire to dress up in

2357
01:20:43,350 --> 01:20:41,679
women's clothing and that's why

2358
01:20:45,270 --> 01:20:43,360
he ran around for the longest time

2359
01:20:48,550 --> 01:20:45,280
saying ridiculous things like

2360
01:20:50,709 --> 01:20:48,560
mafia what mafia well you say that when

2361
01:20:51,350 --> 01:20:50,719
they have all the photos of you you know

2362
01:20:53,830 --> 01:20:51,360
you'll say

2363
01:20:54,470 --> 01:20:53,840
whatever they want but you know if you

2364
01:20:56,470 --> 01:20:54,480
look at

2365
01:20:58,149 --> 01:20:56,480
then and you start diving into this i'm

2366
01:20:59,750 --> 01:20:58,159
just going to throw out some

2367
01:21:01,750 --> 01:20:59,760
kind of things here and then people will

2368
01:21:02,709 --> 01:21:01,760
have to investigate on their own but

2369
01:21:04,629 --> 01:21:02,719
some people know

2370
01:21:07,350 --> 01:21:04,639
if you look at the franklin scandal

2371
01:21:09,910 --> 01:21:07,360
tightly linked to the republican party

2372
01:21:12,390 --> 01:21:09,920
and then it was also the call boy

2373
01:21:14,790 --> 01:21:12,400
scandal related in washington

2374
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:14,800
it it's it's hard and then of course

2375
01:21:18,790 --> 01:21:15,840
pizzagate

2376
01:21:19,990 --> 01:21:18,800
and uh that has all these direct links

2377
01:21:22,950 --> 01:21:20,000
not only to

2378
01:21:23,830 --> 01:21:22,960
uh child abuse and child trafficking but

2379
01:21:27,990 --> 01:21:23,840
to

2380
01:21:30,550 --> 01:21:28,000
occulted and satanic kind of practices

2381
01:21:32,629 --> 01:21:30,560
and i i hear you in that a lot of people

2382
01:21:36,470 --> 01:21:32,639
don't know where to draw the line

2383
01:21:39,189 --> 01:21:36,480
but it seems much more common to me

2384
01:21:40,470 --> 01:21:39,199
and especially people in the occult and

2385
01:21:42,229 --> 01:21:40,480
magic community

2386
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:42,239
that they don't even want to tiptoe into

2387
01:21:47,830 --> 01:21:44,159
those waters i mean

2388
01:21:51,189 --> 01:21:47,840
podesta dennis hazard we have the emails

2389
01:21:51,910 --> 01:21:51,199
why is podesta talking to dennis hassert

2390
01:21:53,910 --> 01:21:51,920
like this

2391
01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:53,920
what do they have in common what they

2392
01:21:58,390 --> 01:21:55,360
have in common is

2393
01:21:59,669 --> 01:21:58,400
pedophilia because hazard is a convicted

2394
01:22:01,830 --> 01:21:59,679
pedophile that

2395
01:22:03,910 --> 01:22:01,840
the judge who sentenced him said you

2396
01:22:04,790 --> 01:22:03,920
know you're one of the worst examples of

2397
01:22:07,270 --> 01:22:04,800
this kind of

2398
01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:07,280
horrific stuff that we've seen and then

2399
01:22:11,350 --> 01:22:09,120
if you look at podesta

2400
01:22:12,870 --> 01:22:11,360
and all we have is circumstantial stuff

2401
01:22:15,350 --> 01:22:12,880
but i mean anyone who's

2402
01:22:17,750 --> 01:22:15,360
objective about looking at that it takes

2403
01:22:18,550 --> 01:22:17,760
you places that you don't want to go so

2404
01:22:21,830 --> 01:22:18,560
if i can

2405
01:22:25,350 --> 01:22:21,840
spin all that back how is this not

2406
01:22:26,950 --> 01:22:25,360
the main political narrative of

2407
01:22:29,350 --> 01:22:26,960
i don't want to say our time because we

2408
01:22:32,629 --> 01:22:29,360
don't know how far back it stretches

2409
01:22:34,310 --> 01:22:32,639
but it it just seems to be so much more

2410
01:22:35,030 --> 01:22:34,320
prominent than anyone's willing to

2411
01:22:37,590 --> 01:22:35,040
really

2412
01:22:38,629 --> 01:22:37,600
acknowledge and especially in your world

2413
01:22:42,149 --> 01:22:38,639
where i'm kind of

2414
01:22:45,110 --> 01:22:42,159
attacking you and the neoliberal left

2415
01:22:45,990 --> 01:22:45,120
they are so detached from this again

2416
01:22:49,350 --> 01:22:46,000
because their

2417
01:22:52,709 --> 01:22:49,360
inability to deal with the greater

2418
01:22:54,390 --> 01:22:52,719
spiritual reality that exists

2419
01:22:57,510 --> 01:22:54,400
completely shuts them down from this

2420
01:22:58,950 --> 01:22:57,520
they just can't go there

2421
01:23:01,990 --> 01:22:58,960
yeah i mean they're they're completely

2422
01:23:03,430 --> 01:23:02,000
incapable i mean one of the reasons why

2423
01:23:05,110 --> 01:23:03,440
is because what we talked about at the

2424
01:23:07,189 --> 01:23:05,120
top of the show

2425
01:23:08,709 --> 01:23:07,199
we are controlled and shamed into not

2426
01:23:13,590 --> 01:23:08,719
having conversations

2427
01:23:14,950 --> 01:23:13,600
about politics

2428
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:14,960
to not having conversations about

2429
01:23:19,030 --> 01:23:17,920
spirituality or even philosophy at this

2430
01:23:22,310 --> 01:23:19,040
point

2431
01:23:23,350 --> 01:23:22,320
so all of those things are difficult for

2432
01:23:25,830 --> 01:23:23,360
us to talk about for

2433
01:23:27,030 --> 01:23:25,840
various reasons which you know we

2434
01:23:28,790 --> 01:23:27,040
probably don't have time to go into all

2435
01:23:31,510 --> 01:23:28,800
the reasons why

2436
01:23:33,189 --> 01:23:31,520
but so we're first of all completely

2437
01:23:35,030 --> 01:23:33,199
unequipped to even talk about it so even

2438
01:23:36,709 --> 01:23:35,040
if we got over that first hurdle

2439
01:23:38,790 --> 01:23:36,719
of deciding to think about it and go

2440
01:23:40,550 --> 01:23:38,800
into it very few of us even have the

2441
01:23:42,870 --> 01:23:40,560
language to have that discussion so most

2442
01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:42,880
people are inept when it comes to it

2443
01:23:47,430 --> 01:23:45,360
but i also think i always come back to

2444
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:47,440
you know when we talk about pizzagate

2445
01:23:51,590 --> 01:23:49,679
for example i actually don't know all

2446
01:23:53,030 --> 01:23:51,600
the particulars of pizzagate

2447
01:23:54,790 --> 01:23:53,040
i don't know all the particulars about

2448
01:23:55,430 --> 01:23:54,800
podesta's emails and all that kind of

2449
01:23:57,669 --> 01:23:55,440
thing so

2450
01:23:59,510 --> 01:23:57,679
in some ways i fail to meet the demand

2451
01:24:02,709 --> 01:23:59,520
that you would maybe have

2452
01:24:06,550 --> 01:24:02,719
of me here but what i do have

2453
01:24:09,590 --> 01:24:06,560
is like okay well i care about

2454
01:24:12,149 --> 01:24:09,600
i actually genuinely care about

2455
01:24:13,750 --> 01:24:12,159
when as much as i can without just

2456
01:24:16,950 --> 01:24:13,760
losing my mind

2457
01:24:19,910 --> 01:24:16,960
when we drone strike

2458
01:24:20,550 --> 01:24:19,920
villages in pakistan and kill children

2459
01:24:25,110 --> 01:24:20,560
right

2460
01:24:27,510 --> 01:24:25,120
so what when i why bring that up is like

2461
01:24:29,669 --> 01:24:27,520
there's a cognitive dissonance about

2462
01:24:31,270 --> 01:24:29,679
who's being harmed where

2463
01:24:32,790 --> 01:24:31,280
how we harm people all that kind of

2464
01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:32,800
stuff to me

2465
01:24:36,390 --> 01:24:34,560
although i have not investigated the

2466
01:24:36,950 --> 01:24:36,400
particulars of a lot of these child

2467
01:24:40,390 --> 01:24:36,960
abuse

2468
01:24:42,470 --> 01:24:40,400
scandals would it surprise me

2469
01:24:45,910 --> 01:24:42,480
that a government that is willing to

2470
01:24:49,430 --> 01:24:45,920
murder kids with bombs and guns

2471
01:24:50,229 --> 01:24:49,440
you know in foreign wars would do crazy

2472
01:24:54,070 --> 01:24:50,239
[\h__\h] like that

2473
01:24:56,070 --> 01:24:54,080
in this country no and and so

2474
01:24:58,550 --> 01:24:56,080
i feel like my ethical and moral compass

2475
01:25:01,110 --> 01:24:58,560
is in the right place which is at least

2476
01:25:01,910 --> 01:25:01,120
part of what's needed for this because i

2477
01:25:03,590 --> 01:25:01,920
think also

2478
01:25:05,270 --> 01:25:03,600
there's a way in which people go down

2479
01:25:08,870 --> 01:25:05,280
these conspiracy

2480
01:25:11,669 --> 01:25:08,880
rabbit holes which i think sometimes

2481
01:25:13,110 --> 01:25:11,679
really produce worthwhile uh information

2482
01:25:14,870 --> 01:25:13,120
and perspectives for us

2483
01:25:16,310 --> 01:25:14,880
but they go down them as a way to

2484
01:25:18,070 --> 01:25:16,320
distract themselves from the moral

2485
01:25:19,830 --> 01:25:18,080
dimension of the thing that's happening

2486
01:25:21,990 --> 01:25:19,840
all over the world in the first place

2487
01:25:23,350 --> 01:25:22,000
and that also i think is just as

2488
01:25:26,390 --> 01:25:23,360
concerning for me

2489
01:25:27,910 --> 01:25:26,400
where it becomes this like whodunit

2490
01:25:29,669 --> 01:25:27,920
put all the strings on the board and

2491
01:25:33,270 --> 01:25:29,679
connect everything together

2492
01:25:34,310 --> 01:25:33,280
you know in information game that loses

2493
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:34,320
its moral core

2494
01:25:37,590 --> 01:25:35,840
where you look outward into the world

2495
01:25:38,709 --> 01:25:37,600
where you don't even have to do any of

2496
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:38,719
that work and see

2497
01:25:43,110 --> 01:25:41,520
yeah governments and corporations murder

2498
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:43,120
and torture children

2499
01:25:47,270 --> 01:25:45,440
there's no question about that at all

2500
01:25:50,390 --> 01:25:47,280
and i should be really concerned of that

2501
01:25:52,470 --> 01:25:50,400
on a worldwide scale now it's

2502
01:25:53,990 --> 01:25:52,480
both those things are still leaving out

2503
01:25:56,629 --> 01:25:54,000
the whole dimension of

2504
01:25:57,830 --> 01:25:56,639
this sort of spiritual aspect of well

2505
01:26:01,030 --> 01:25:57,840
what does it mean

2506
01:26:04,149 --> 01:26:01,040
that we might kill people kill kids

2507
01:26:08,470 --> 01:26:04,159
torture kids sexually abuse kids for

2508
01:26:09,750 --> 01:26:08,480
uh a a sexual spiritual ritual in the

2509
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:09,760
world what does that mean and what does

2510
01:26:13,590 --> 01:26:11,120
that reveal to us

2511
01:26:15,030 --> 01:26:13,600
i i hear you but you you're kind of not

2512
01:26:16,950 --> 01:26:15,040
answering the question

2513
01:26:18,149 --> 01:26:16,960
here's the point what interested me from

2514
01:26:21,510 --> 01:26:18,159
the beginning

2515
01:26:22,149 --> 01:26:21,520
about pizzagate and about satanic ritual

2516
01:26:27,350 --> 01:26:22,159
abuse

2517
01:26:29,030 --> 01:26:27,360
of children which oftentimes doesn't

2518
01:26:31,590 --> 01:26:29,040
have anything to do with sex

2519
01:26:32,470 --> 01:26:31,600
it has to do with violence and when i

2520
01:26:35,110 --> 01:26:32,480
interviewed

2521
01:26:36,229 --> 01:26:35,120
bob hammer fbi agent 20 years who

2522
01:26:39,350 --> 01:26:36,239
infiltrated uh

2523
01:26:40,629 --> 01:26:39,360
nambla man boy love association phony

2524
01:26:43,030 --> 01:26:40,639
political front

2525
01:26:44,229 --> 01:26:43,040
and the conversations that he heard

2526
01:26:47,669 --> 01:26:44,239
these men having

2527
01:26:50,310 --> 01:26:47,679
were not about sex or love

2528
01:26:51,270 --> 01:26:50,320
they were about violence they were about

2529
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:51,280
really horrible

2530
01:26:54,709 --> 01:26:53,040
horrific things that they wanted to do

2531
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:54,719
to children in ways that they wanted to

2532
01:26:57,910 --> 01:26:55,600
harm them

2533
01:26:59,189 --> 01:26:57,920
but i i digress slightly because what

2534
01:27:03,350 --> 01:26:59,199
that was really

2535
01:27:06,390 --> 01:27:03,360
about to me was the question of evil

2536
01:27:09,510 --> 01:27:06,400
because there's a moral ambiguity

2537
01:27:09,910 --> 01:27:09,520
to obama who i'm sure you were referring

2538
01:27:12,870 --> 01:27:09,920
to

2539
01:27:14,229 --> 01:27:12,880
drone striking uh weddings you know

2540
01:27:16,790 --> 01:27:14,239
because obama was the

2541
01:27:18,950 --> 01:27:16,800
the drone strike king in history more

2542
01:27:20,629 --> 01:27:18,960
drone strikes than anyone else and

2543
01:27:23,110 --> 01:27:20,639
he had a lot of children and he killed a

2544
01:27:23,669 --> 01:27:23,120
lot of innocents and all the rest of

2545
01:27:27,189 --> 01:27:23,679
that

2546
01:27:28,470 --> 01:27:27,199
because of course it happened before and

2547
01:27:31,669 --> 01:27:28,480
it's happened since but

2548
01:27:33,990 --> 01:27:31,679
let's let obama sit down

2549
01:27:36,709 --> 01:27:34,000
throne there because he won that prize

2550
01:27:40,229 --> 01:27:36,719
but there's a moral ambiguity to that

2551
01:27:43,990 --> 01:27:40,239
because we understand that we need to

2552
01:27:45,830 --> 01:27:44,000
defend ourselves so the dalai lama says

2553
01:27:46,229 --> 01:27:45,840
hey if someone attacks you it's okay to

2554
01:27:48,310 --> 01:27:46,239
descen

2555
01:27:49,750 --> 01:27:48,320
defend yourself gandhi says hey even

2556
01:27:51,669 --> 01:27:49,760
though it's uh you know turn the other

2557
01:27:53,270 --> 01:27:51,679
cheek in peace and all that we do have a

2558
01:27:56,870 --> 01:27:53,280
right to defend ourselves

2559
01:28:00,390 --> 01:27:56,880
so well-meaning people can

2560
01:28:04,310 --> 01:28:00,400
have differences about how far

2561
01:28:07,510 --> 01:28:04,320
that defense extends and what we should

2562
01:28:09,590 --> 01:28:07,520
allow ourselves or our governments on

2563
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:09,600
our behalf to engage in in order

2564
01:28:15,510 --> 01:28:12,960
to defend ourselves on the other hand

2565
01:28:16,790 --> 01:28:15,520
a lot of this sexual abuse and satanic

2566
01:28:18,790 --> 01:28:16,800
stuff

2567
01:28:20,070 --> 01:28:18,800
strikes us as something that is of a

2568
01:28:22,790 --> 01:28:20,080
different ilk

2569
01:28:23,110 --> 01:28:22,800
it is evil in a way that we don't want

2570
01:28:28,229 --> 01:28:23,120
to

2571
01:28:29,350 --> 01:28:28,239
evil in a way that i don't fully

2572
01:28:32,870 --> 01:28:29,360
understand

2573
01:28:35,270 --> 01:28:32,880
but i'm open to wanting to explore

2574
01:28:36,709 --> 01:28:35,280
because i think there's something there

2575
01:28:39,990 --> 01:28:36,719
that fits into this

2576
01:28:41,270 --> 01:28:40,000
larger puzzle in terms of why someone

2577
01:28:44,149 --> 01:28:41,280
would engage

2578
01:28:44,470 --> 01:28:44,159
in this kind of evil do you get what i'm

2579
01:28:47,430 --> 01:28:44,480
saying

2580
01:28:48,550 --> 01:28:47,440
yes okay so first i want to agree with

2581
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:48,560
you and then i want to

2582
01:28:53,189 --> 01:28:51,120
turn something back to you okay so the

2583
01:28:55,030 --> 01:28:53,199
thing i want to agree with you on is

2584
01:28:56,470 --> 01:28:55,040
yes there's definitely a distinction

2585
01:28:58,950 --> 01:28:56,480
there and

2586
01:28:59,830 --> 01:28:58,960
anything that looks like satanic ritual

2587
01:29:02,149 --> 01:28:59,840
abuse

2588
01:29:04,709 --> 01:29:02,159
will reveal something different about

2589
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:04,719
evil to us that i think is important

2590
01:29:08,310 --> 01:29:07,040
but i would also just turn back to you

2591
01:29:11,110 --> 01:29:08,320
and say

2592
01:29:11,669 --> 01:29:11,120
maybe like the more pernicious and

2593
01:29:14,790 --> 01:29:11,679
horrible

2594
01:29:17,030 --> 01:29:14,800
evil is in is in the kind of violence

2595
01:29:19,510 --> 01:29:17,040
that makes us think that there's

2596
01:29:21,750 --> 01:29:19,520
uh ambiguity about it maybe that's the

2597
01:29:23,590 --> 01:29:21,760
thing that's actually way more evil

2598
01:29:26,229 --> 01:29:23,600
because let's say somebody gets caught

2599
01:29:28,390 --> 01:29:26,239
like red-handed

2600
01:29:30,149 --> 01:29:28,400
skinning a child and as some of these

2601
01:29:31,910 --> 01:29:30,159
accounts are and like hanging their skin

2602
01:29:33,910 --> 01:29:31,920
on a tree

2603
01:29:36,629 --> 01:29:33,920
i think our society would condemn that

2604
01:29:38,470 --> 01:29:36,639
you know unilaterally if they saw it in

2605
01:29:42,790 --> 01:29:38,480
plain sight we see

2606
01:29:45,990 --> 01:29:42,800
images of people being burned alive

2607
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:46,000
and it's public record and we talk about

2608
01:29:49,990 --> 01:29:46,560
that as

2609
01:29:52,550 --> 01:29:50,000
winning and you know and as necessary

2610
01:29:55,189 --> 01:29:52,560
and as ambiguous that to me

2611
01:29:56,070 --> 01:29:55,199
that spirit that thing that's happening

2612
01:29:58,310 --> 01:29:56,080
in that space

2613
01:30:00,550 --> 01:29:58,320
is the thing that's the real real

2614
01:30:03,110 --> 01:30:00,560
horrific instance of evil

2615
01:30:05,270 --> 01:30:03,120
and it's not it's not because it's more

2616
01:30:06,629 --> 01:30:05,280
evil or less evil than

2617
01:30:08,550 --> 01:30:06,639
you know killing and torturing the kid

2618
01:30:10,229 --> 01:30:08,560
and satanic ritual abuse

2619
01:30:11,590 --> 01:30:10,239
there are distinctions there and i think

2620
01:30:14,629 --> 01:30:11,600
it's important to notice them

2621
01:30:15,030 --> 01:30:14,639
it's just that we greet it we greet it

2622
01:30:18,390 --> 01:30:15,040
with an

2623
01:30:19,430 --> 01:30:18,400
enthusiasm and that to me is really

2624
01:30:20,790 --> 01:30:19,440
really messed up

2625
01:30:23,510 --> 01:30:20,800
and it's something that we really need

2626
01:30:25,669 --> 01:30:23,520
to look at and that is hidden from us

2627
01:30:26,950 --> 01:30:25,679
that's a that's a conspiracy all on its

2628
01:30:30,550 --> 01:30:26,960
own

2629
01:30:32,870 --> 01:30:30,560
why we why we celebrate

2630
01:30:34,950 --> 01:30:32,880
that kind of thing and i don't think

2631
01:30:36,950 --> 01:30:34,960
it's good to just uh

2632
01:30:38,470 --> 01:30:36,960
i'm not saying you're doing this but i'm

2633
01:30:40,629 --> 01:30:38,480
gonna use a

2634
01:30:43,350 --> 01:30:40,639
forceful word and i think it's good to

2635
01:30:45,030 --> 01:30:43,360
retreat or hide in ambiguity or the idea

2636
01:30:47,510 --> 01:30:45,040
of complex decisions

2637
01:30:48,310 --> 01:30:47,520
when it comes to that sort of thing we

2638
01:30:51,110 --> 01:30:48,320
have

2639
01:30:52,709 --> 01:30:51,120
decided unconsciously but then i've

2640
01:30:54,629 --> 01:30:52,719
decided to go along with

2641
01:30:56,229 --> 01:30:54,639
a culture that says that that's okay and

2642
01:30:59,430 --> 01:30:56,239
that's ambiguous and

2643
01:31:01,030 --> 01:30:59,440
we have decided so deeply that we rarely

2644
01:31:02,950 --> 01:31:01,040
even try to get ourselves out of

2645
01:31:03,750 --> 01:31:02,960
situations like that or pull ourselves

2646
01:31:06,310 --> 01:31:03,760
back from it

2647
01:31:07,510 --> 01:31:06,320
or try to dial down the way that we do

2648
01:31:09,990 --> 01:31:07,520
that in the world

2649
01:31:11,350 --> 01:31:10,000
the way that we export murder and

2650
01:31:14,149 --> 01:31:11,360
torture

2651
01:31:15,510 --> 01:31:14,159
across the entire planet not a lot of

2652
01:31:17,510 --> 01:31:15,520
nations do it it's not just us

2653
01:31:19,189 --> 01:31:17,520
but let's take responsibility for the

2654
01:31:21,510 --> 01:31:19,199
one we're in

2655
01:31:23,990 --> 01:31:21,520
i get you and it's a point well taken

2656
01:31:25,270 --> 01:31:24,000
and rather than kind of defend myself

2657
01:31:27,189 --> 01:31:25,280
because you got a point

2658
01:31:28,709 --> 01:31:27,199
and there's no question about it the one

2659
01:31:32,070 --> 01:31:28,719
thing i would add to that though

2660
01:31:36,310 --> 01:31:32,080
is where i was coming at it from

2661
01:31:38,790 --> 01:31:36,320
was it clarifies and that i think we

2662
01:31:39,590 --> 01:31:38,800
we agree yes because you know a lot of

2663
01:31:42,229 --> 01:31:39,600
my

2664
01:31:43,270 --> 01:31:42,239
efforts i guess has been kind of wanting

2665
01:31:46,709 --> 01:31:43,280
to grab

2666
01:31:47,910 --> 01:31:46,719
atheistic people by the shirt collar you

2667
01:31:50,229 --> 01:31:47,920
know whether they be

2668
01:31:51,750 --> 01:31:50,239
heather berg at usc whether phony

2669
01:31:54,229 --> 01:31:51,760
baloney job or

2670
01:31:55,270 --> 01:31:54,239
you know some atheist who doesn't even i

2671
01:31:57,189 --> 01:31:55,280
know you're going to get a lot of [\h__\h]

2672
01:31:59,669 --> 01:31:57,199
from him

2673
01:32:00,229 --> 01:31:59,679
she's welcome to come on the show every

2674
01:32:02,629 --> 01:32:00,239
[\h__\h]

2675
01:32:04,149 --> 01:32:02,639
time i it's just ridiculous that someone

2676
01:32:04,709 --> 01:32:04,159
would would say those kind of crazy

2677
01:32:07,510 --> 01:32:04,719
things

2678
01:32:08,790 --> 01:32:07,520
but anyways to shake those people by the

2679
01:32:12,390 --> 01:32:08,800
cheer color and say

2680
01:32:15,110 --> 01:32:12,400
there is a larger spiritual reality

2681
01:32:17,430 --> 01:32:15,120
that you got to swim in that pond before

2682
01:32:19,590 --> 01:32:17,440
you can even begin to

2683
01:32:20,629 --> 01:32:19,600
deal with some of this stuff so it's

2684
01:32:23,510 --> 01:32:20,639
almost like

2685
01:32:25,110 --> 01:32:23,520
you know you see one entry point and i

2686
01:32:27,510 --> 01:32:25,120
see another entry point

2687
01:32:28,870 --> 01:32:27,520
i see the entry point as being

2688
01:32:31,990 --> 01:32:28,880
provocative and saying

2689
01:32:34,790 --> 01:32:32,000
yeah satanic ritual abuse look there is

2690
01:32:35,590 --> 01:32:34,800
real and it goes all the way up in the

2691
01:32:41,990 --> 01:32:35,600
white house

2692
01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:42,000
you know

2693
01:32:45,430 --> 01:32:43,920
over and over and over again so it's

2694
01:32:48,229 --> 01:32:45,440
like that to me

2695
01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:48,239
is the doorway to saying for some people

2696
01:32:52,470 --> 01:32:50,560
will say oh i do need to wake up to that

2697
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:52,480
versus i think it is harder for people

2698
01:32:57,669 --> 01:32:54,239
to wake up to the

2699
01:33:00,950 --> 01:32:57,679
drone strike which is an extension of

2700
01:33:01,750 --> 01:33:00,960
the firebombing of tokyo which is an

2701
01:33:04,790 --> 01:33:01,760
extension

2702
01:33:06,870 --> 01:33:04,800
of holocaust of the druids by the romans

2703
01:33:08,709 --> 01:33:06,880
which is an extension of we've seen all

2704
01:33:10,870 --> 01:33:08,719
that [\h__\h] before

2705
01:33:13,030 --> 01:33:10,880
yeah i mean i think and i think like

2706
01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:13,040
just like i don't want to dismiss

2707
01:33:19,990 --> 01:33:16,560
the ritual abuse stuff or or other

2708
01:33:23,030 --> 01:33:20,000
other instances of human sacrifice and

2709
01:33:25,750 --> 01:33:23,040
strange occult acts of black magic

2710
01:33:27,030 --> 01:33:25,760
in high places as not interesting

2711
01:33:28,470 --> 01:33:27,040
they're very interesting

2712
01:33:30,550 --> 01:33:28,480
and i think that the way you just said

2713
01:33:30,950 --> 01:33:30,560
it where you say it clarifies what evil

2714
01:33:33,910 --> 01:33:30,960
is

2715
01:33:35,430 --> 01:33:33,920
that's a really interesting uh way of

2716
01:33:37,750 --> 01:33:35,440
looking at it because i think

2717
01:33:38,709 --> 01:33:37,760
you know people tend to think of evil as

2718
01:33:40,149 --> 01:33:38,719
like

2719
01:33:41,590 --> 01:33:40,159
oh well you know everybody's just

2720
01:33:42,550 --> 01:33:41,600
wounded and they're just acting out of

2721
01:33:44,229 --> 01:33:42,560
the wound like

2722
01:33:45,590 --> 01:33:44,239
no that's [\h__\h] and you and i both

2723
01:33:46,950 --> 01:33:45,600
know that that's [\h__\h] because

2724
01:33:48,550 --> 01:33:46,960
and i've heard you talk about it and

2725
01:33:49,430 --> 01:33:48,560
call people out on that and say like no

2726
01:33:51,510 --> 01:33:49,440
that's [\h__\h]

2727
01:33:52,870 --> 01:33:51,520
it is total [\h__\h] what's happening

2728
01:33:55,990 --> 01:33:52,880
when someone's evil

2729
01:33:59,590 --> 01:33:56,000
is that they are they've reached

2730
01:34:02,830 --> 01:33:59,600
a state where they understand

2731
01:34:05,510 --> 01:34:02,840
their wounds and they're still deciding

2732
01:34:07,110 --> 01:34:05,520
intentionally to align themselves with

2733
01:34:10,950 --> 01:34:07,120
certain forces

2734
01:34:12,470 --> 01:34:10,960
in our cosmos and in our world to

2735
01:34:14,629 --> 01:34:12,480
i think the way mark booth might have

2736
01:34:15,590 --> 01:34:14,639
said it i love using him as an example

2737
01:34:18,390 --> 01:34:15,600
because he says so

2738
01:34:19,990 --> 01:34:18,400
much and so eloquently is that as

2739
01:34:21,270 --> 01:34:20,000
counter forces to the evolution of

2740
01:34:23,590 --> 01:34:21,280
humanity

2741
01:34:24,470 --> 01:34:23,600
and we could unpack evolution of

2742
01:34:26,229 --> 01:34:24,480
humanity

2743
01:34:28,390 --> 01:34:26,239
and counter forces and all that kind of

2744
01:34:31,590 --> 01:34:28,400
stuff if you want but

2745
01:34:34,310 --> 01:34:31,600
essentially it means like i'm

2746
01:34:35,270 --> 01:34:34,320
align myself with beings that want to

2747
01:34:37,669 --> 01:34:35,280
undo

2748
01:34:38,470 --> 01:34:37,679
love and compassion in the world and

2749
01:34:40,950 --> 01:34:38,480
i've done that

2750
01:34:41,669 --> 01:34:40,960
intentionally i've done and freedom and

2751
01:34:44,310 --> 01:34:41,679
free will

2752
01:34:45,109 --> 01:34:44,320
and i've done that intentionally someone

2753
01:34:46,790 --> 01:34:45,119
someone can

2754
01:34:48,310 --> 01:34:46,800
i i mean this is gonna sound strange but

2755
01:34:50,629 --> 01:34:48,320
someone can murder somebody

2756
01:34:52,310 --> 01:34:50,639
and it won't be evil because they're

2757
01:34:53,750 --> 01:34:52,320
doing it because they're crazy

2758
01:34:55,990 --> 01:34:53,760
and they're compulsive and they're

2759
01:34:57,750 --> 01:34:56,000
acting on when they might be

2760
01:34:59,669 --> 01:34:57,760
in the sway of something that's evil but

2761
01:34:59,990 --> 01:34:59,679
they themselves are outside of their own

2762
01:35:06,629 --> 01:35:00,000
free

2763
01:35:09,270 --> 01:35:06,639
because evil requires intention

2764
01:35:11,350 --> 01:35:09,280
otherwise it's reflexive it's compulsive

2765
01:35:13,750 --> 01:35:11,360
so evil is rare

2766
01:35:14,550 --> 01:35:13,760
but it's horrific when it happens and i

2767
01:35:17,430 --> 01:35:14,560
think that both

2768
01:35:19,590 --> 01:35:17,440
the satanic ritual abuse stuff and wars

2769
01:35:21,750 --> 01:35:19,600
at a certain point up the ladder

2770
01:35:23,669 --> 01:35:21,760
are acts of evil whether everybody

2771
01:35:25,830 --> 01:35:23,679
involved in those acts

2772
01:35:27,830 --> 01:35:25,840
are evil people are doing evil

2773
01:35:29,189 --> 01:35:27,840
themselves and not just sort of in the

2774
01:35:31,189 --> 01:35:29,199
sway of something

2775
01:35:33,350 --> 01:35:31,199
as if they're hypnotized or in a trance

2776
01:35:35,669 --> 01:35:33,360
is that's a different question

2777
01:35:37,510 --> 01:35:35,679
i think you put your finger on something

2778
01:35:39,430 --> 01:35:37,520
and i like how you reference

2779
01:35:41,109 --> 01:35:39,440
mark's thing because i gave mark a

2780
01:35:43,990 --> 01:35:41,119
pretty hard time about his

2781
01:35:45,590 --> 01:35:44,000
kind of very christian world view and i

2782
01:35:45,990 --> 01:35:45,600
have a lot of respect for him i think

2783
01:35:48,790 --> 01:35:46,000
he's

2784
01:35:50,070 --> 01:35:48,800
brilliant in so many ways and i love

2785
01:35:52,709 --> 01:35:50,080
what you said about

2786
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:52,719
mark and the counter-evolutionary thing

2787
01:35:57,990 --> 01:35:54,719
and i guess let me tip my

2788
01:35:58,550 --> 01:35:58,000
hand a little bit in that i think that

2789
01:36:01,990 --> 01:35:58,560
is

2790
01:36:03,350 --> 01:36:02,000
so accessible to all of us in a very

2791
01:36:05,350 --> 01:36:03,360
personal way

2792
01:36:07,189 --> 01:36:05,360
if we're really honest what are your

2793
01:36:08,950 --> 01:36:07,199
thoughts on that i want to say that

2794
01:36:11,669 --> 01:36:08,960
one of the urgent questions ahead of us

2795
01:36:15,830 --> 01:36:11,679
is to all ask ourselves consistently

2796
01:36:17,750 --> 01:36:15,840
am i evil um is to keep that question in

2797
01:36:18,070 --> 01:36:17,760
mind because you're right it can become

2798
01:36:19,510 --> 01:36:18,080
that

2799
01:36:21,510 --> 01:36:19,520
it's not it's almost like the opposite

2800
01:36:22,870 --> 01:36:21,520
of being when people say it's crazy it's

2801
01:36:25,109 --> 01:36:22,880
like if you can ask yourself if you're

2802
01:36:27,189 --> 01:36:25,119
crazy then you're not crazy

2803
01:36:28,149 --> 01:36:27,199
if you can ask yourself if you're evil

2804
01:36:30,070 --> 01:36:28,159
then you actually

2805
01:36:31,430 --> 01:36:30,080
do have the potential to become evil

2806
01:36:32,629 --> 01:36:31,440
because if you never ask

2807
01:36:34,550 --> 01:36:32,639
then you're just in this way of

2808
01:36:35,830 --> 01:36:34,560
compulsive sleepwalking forces like

2809
01:36:37,430 --> 01:36:35,840
everybody else and

2810
01:36:39,750 --> 01:36:37,440
you know nothing you do is really evil

2811
01:36:41,350 --> 01:36:39,760
but also nothing you do is really good

2812
01:36:43,030 --> 01:36:41,360
like you're not really acting out of

2813
01:36:44,149 --> 01:36:43,040
intention at all so you're not really

2814
01:36:46,709 --> 01:36:44,159
able to extend

2815
01:36:48,390 --> 01:36:46,719
love and compassion for real in an

2816
01:36:49,270 --> 01:36:48,400
intentional purposeful and meaningful

2817
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:49,280
way to people

2818
01:36:52,470 --> 01:36:51,280
so you have to ask yourself am i evil to

2819
01:36:54,790 --> 01:36:52,480
be able to extend and that

2820
01:36:56,790 --> 01:36:54,800
is the gift of the possibility of evil

2821
01:36:59,750 --> 01:36:56,800
to us that's the gift of free will to us

2822
01:37:00,790 --> 01:36:59,760
is that the separation the ability to do

2823
01:37:03,189 --> 01:37:00,800
evil means

2824
01:37:04,790 --> 01:37:03,199
that if we look at that we ask ourselves

2825
01:37:07,590 --> 01:37:04,800
that then we can do good in the world

2826
01:37:09,669 --> 01:37:07,600
if that makes sense so i think that i

2827
01:37:12,870 --> 01:37:09,679
think that it takes a lot of work

2828
01:37:14,229 --> 01:37:12,880
to do evil in the sense of yes it's

2829
01:37:16,550 --> 01:37:14,239
available to all of us

2830
01:37:18,310 --> 01:37:16,560
but so you do evil okay so you're an

2831
01:37:21,430 --> 01:37:18,320
evil person you do lots of

2832
01:37:23,910 --> 01:37:21,440
horrible black magic in this world

2833
01:37:25,510 --> 01:37:23,920
and i define almost all evil as black

2834
01:37:28,550 --> 01:37:25,520
magic honestly so i

2835
01:37:30,470 --> 01:37:28,560
am not on board with uh spiritual people

2836
01:37:32,070 --> 01:37:30,480
or cultists are like oh who cares black

2837
01:37:33,430 --> 01:37:32,080
magic white magic gray magic because

2838
01:37:34,550 --> 01:37:33,440
i'll just you know whatever no i'm not

2839
01:37:36,390 --> 01:37:34,560
down with that

2840
01:37:38,229 --> 01:37:36,400
and um there are lots of reasons for

2841
01:37:39,750 --> 01:37:38,239
that but i think it's like

2842
01:37:41,590 --> 01:37:39,760
yes if you do black magic in this

2843
01:37:44,550 --> 01:37:41,600
lifetime you're doing evil okay

2844
01:37:44,870 --> 01:37:44,560
so you die so then you die and you have

2845
01:37:53,510 --> 01:37:44,880
a

2846
01:37:55,270 --> 01:37:53,520
did evil in this one

2847
01:37:57,189 --> 01:37:55,280
you know the way the universe works is

2848
01:37:58,550 --> 01:37:57,199
we have free will and these experiences

2849
01:38:00,070 --> 01:37:58,560
are available to us in one way or

2850
01:38:02,310 --> 01:38:00,080
another

2851
01:38:03,750 --> 01:38:02,320
there's a really curious almost hidden

2852
01:38:05,109 --> 01:38:03,760
little thing that rudolph schneider says

2853
01:38:07,189 --> 01:38:05,119
somewhere and i don't exactly even

2854
01:38:09,510 --> 01:38:07,199
remember where it is but he says

2855
01:38:10,950 --> 01:38:09,520
if you do even one lifetime okay that

2856
01:38:12,709 --> 01:38:10,960
sucks you shouldn't do it

2857
01:38:14,070 --> 01:38:12,719
but everybody who's been a great

2858
01:38:15,830 --> 01:38:14,080
spiritual master

2859
01:38:17,750 --> 01:38:15,840
has at some point been a black magician

2860
01:38:19,270 --> 01:38:17,760
in a in a past lifetime

2861
01:38:21,109 --> 01:38:19,280
why because they need to understand the

2862
01:38:23,430 --> 01:38:21,119
totality of human experience

2863
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:23,440
so they have to go through that trial so

2864
01:38:27,270 --> 01:38:25,360
even the people who have become

2865
01:38:29,030 --> 01:38:27,280
mass actually dascalo said that and

2866
01:38:32,070 --> 01:38:29,040
cypriot healer

2867
01:38:33,270 --> 01:38:32,080
but he but he said you know so look

2868
01:38:35,430 --> 01:38:33,280
because they need to experience the

2869
01:38:36,950 --> 01:38:35,440
totality of existence to understand the

2870
01:38:38,950 --> 01:38:36,960
real depths of humanity

2871
01:38:40,229 --> 01:38:38,960
so on a sort of cosmic scale it's that

2872
01:38:41,910 --> 01:38:40,239
that idea that i was talking about

2873
01:38:42,790 --> 01:38:41,920
before like you have to ask yourself if

2874
01:38:45,030 --> 01:38:42,800
you're evil

2875
01:38:47,030 --> 01:38:45,040
to be able to do good we have to do evil

2876
01:38:49,270 --> 01:38:47,040
to do great good in another lifetime i'm

2877
01:38:51,270 --> 01:38:49,280
not proposing anybody do evil

2878
01:38:53,430 --> 01:38:51,280
but i'm just saying we go through these

2879
01:38:54,950 --> 01:38:53,440
lifetimes rudolph steiner said this very

2880
01:38:57,430 --> 01:38:54,960
curious thing somewhere

2881
01:38:58,310 --> 01:38:57,440
where he said if you do evil one

2882
01:39:02,390 --> 01:38:58,320
lifetime

2883
01:39:03,750 --> 01:39:02,400
row

2884
01:39:05,590 --> 01:39:03,760
i don't know where he came up with that

2885
01:39:08,629 --> 01:39:05,600
number but he said

2886
01:39:10,629 --> 01:39:08,639
your soul will be obliterated now in my

2887
01:39:14,310 --> 01:39:10,639
understanding of spirituality

2888
01:39:17,189 --> 01:39:14,320
our being is that we are all our own

2889
01:39:18,550 --> 01:39:17,199
universes and we're becoming our own

2890
01:39:21,510 --> 01:39:18,560
universes

2891
01:39:23,350 --> 01:39:21,520
so if you do evil 13 lifetimes in a row

2892
01:39:25,350 --> 01:39:23,360
and you obliterate your soul

2893
01:39:27,830 --> 01:39:25,360
you've made a black hole out of yourself

2894
01:39:29,669 --> 01:39:27,840
and a black hole sucks everything

2895
01:39:31,189 --> 01:39:29,679
into it and that is really counter to

2896
01:39:33,109 --> 01:39:31,199
humanity you've done something

2897
01:39:34,950 --> 01:39:33,119
really grievous you've done something

2898
01:39:36,070 --> 01:39:34,960
really horrible you've aligned yourself

2899
01:39:37,910 --> 01:39:36,080
with forces

2900
01:39:40,390 --> 01:39:37,920
in the universe that really are trying

2901
01:39:41,910 --> 01:39:40,400
to make you a sink that pulls everything

2902
01:39:45,270 --> 01:39:41,920
into nothingness

2903
01:39:46,470 --> 01:39:45,280
so that is what happens with evil as far

2904
01:39:48,790 --> 01:39:46,480
as i'm concerned

2905
01:39:50,070 --> 01:39:48,800
there's a lot there that we can go into

2906
01:39:50,870 --> 01:39:50,080
but i know we're getting to the end of

2907
01:39:52,830 --> 01:39:50,880
the episode

2908
01:39:55,910 --> 01:39:52,840
so i just let people sit with that i

2909
01:39:57,830 --> 01:39:55,920
guess sit with it they shall

2910
01:39:59,590 --> 01:39:57,840
again our guest has been conor habib

2911
01:40:01,669 --> 01:39:59,600
connor it's been absolutely great

2912
01:40:02,790 --> 01:40:01,679
entering into this dialogue with you i

2913
01:40:04,629 --> 01:40:02,800
think it's

2914
01:40:06,629 --> 01:40:04,639
so rare i've never had a chance to talk

2915
01:40:09,350 --> 01:40:06,639
with anyone in this way

2916
01:40:10,629 --> 01:40:09,360
on skeptico so it's a great gift check

2917
01:40:14,149 --> 01:40:10,639
out connor's

2918
01:40:16,470 --> 01:40:14,159
podcast slash video vidcast

2919
01:40:18,229 --> 01:40:16,480
against everyone with connor rabib and

2920
01:40:20,470 --> 01:40:18,239
how else can people

2921
01:40:22,709 --> 01:40:20,480
reach you and follow your progress

2922
01:40:24,709 --> 01:40:22,719
towards your very interesting

2923
01:40:26,470 --> 01:40:24,719
phd work we were talking about yeah so

2924
01:40:28,629 --> 01:40:26,480
um so

2925
01:40:29,990 --> 01:40:28,639
one of the best ways to interact with me

2926
01:40:30,470 --> 01:40:30,000
because i really interact with people on

2927
01:40:32,870 --> 01:40:30,480
there

2928
01:40:33,590 --> 01:40:32,880
is through my patreon and even if you

2929
01:40:36,149 --> 01:40:33,600
just pledge

2930
01:40:36,709 --> 01:40:36,159
a dollar a month or you can pledge more

2931
01:40:37,910 --> 01:40:36,719
i

2932
01:40:40,070 --> 01:40:37,920
respond to everybody on there and that's

2933
01:40:41,750 --> 01:40:40,080
patreon.com forward slash conor beebe

2934
01:40:44,070 --> 01:40:41,760
it gives you links to all the podcasts

2935
01:40:47,590 --> 01:40:44,080
the stuff i'm writing and working on

2936
01:40:49,830 --> 01:40:47,600
and you know if if i still

2937
01:40:51,109 --> 01:40:49,840
nevertheless appreciate everybody if you

2938
01:40:54,629 --> 01:40:51,119
want to follow me on twitter

2939
01:40:56,149 --> 01:40:54,639
just at c-o-n-n-e-r-h-a-b-i-b conor bee

2940
01:40:58,229 --> 01:40:56,159
on twitter and

2941
01:40:59,430 --> 01:40:58,239
also you know by subscribing to the

2942
01:41:01,910 --> 01:40:59,440
podcast

2943
01:41:05,590 --> 01:41:01,920
great connor well best of luck and uh

2944
01:41:07,510 --> 01:41:05,600
let's stay in touch right yeah we will

2945
01:41:09,669 --> 01:41:07,520
thanks again conor harbor joining me

2946
01:41:12,310 --> 01:41:09,679
today on skeptico the one question i t

2947
01:41:14,629 --> 01:41:12,320
up from this interview is the question i

2948
01:41:17,750 --> 01:41:14,639
teed up at the beginning and that is

2949
01:41:18,550 --> 01:41:17,760
is there a disconnect between

2950
01:41:21,510 --> 01:41:18,560
progressive

2951
01:41:22,550 --> 01:41:21,520
social causes that we all identify with

2952
01:41:25,510 --> 01:41:22,560
and believe in

2953
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:25,520
universal love and harmony and freedom

2954
01:41:29,830 --> 01:41:26,639
and justice

2955
01:41:33,189 --> 01:41:29,840
is there a disconnect between that

2956
01:41:36,229 --> 01:41:33,199
and spirituality in that

2957
01:41:39,350 --> 01:41:36,239
do any of those things make sense

2958
01:41:42,870 --> 01:41:39,360
in an atheistic biological robot

2959
01:41:44,470 --> 01:41:42,880
paradigm so that's the question i'd love

2960
01:41:46,390 --> 01:41:44,480
to hear your thoughts

2961
01:41:48,470 --> 01:41:46,400
join me in the skeptical forum or just

2962
01:41:51,669 --> 01:41:48,480
send me an email or reach me on facebook

2963
01:41:54,030 --> 01:41:51,679
any way you want is good for me i'm here

2964
01:41:56,229 --> 01:41:54,040
at skeptico.com

2965
01:41:58,629 --> 01:41:56,239
s-k-e-p-t-i-k-o dot com

2966
01:42:00,070 --> 01:41:58,639
where i make available all these shows

2967
01:42:03,270 --> 01:42:00,080
for free for download

2968
01:42:04,709 --> 01:42:03,280
to use in any way you like

2969
01:42:07,350 --> 01:42:04,719
so that's going to do it for this

2970
01:42:09,030 --> 01:42:07,360
episode i have some good ones

2971
01:42:10,470 --> 01:42:09,040
in the can a little bit slow in getting

2972
01:42:12,229 --> 01:42:10,480
them out that's why i'm increasing

2973
01:42:14,390 --> 01:42:12,239
kind of doing every week because i wind

2974
01:42:15,750 --> 01:42:14,400
up doing more interviews and then i

2975
01:42:17,189 --> 01:42:15,760
can't get them out in time so they're

2976
01:42:18,950 --> 01:42:17,199
going to be coming every week for a

2977
01:42:19,350 --> 01:42:18,960
while and then back to every other week

2978
01:42:21,109 --> 01:42:19,360
but

2979
01:42:22,550 --> 01:42:21,119
anyways there's some good ones coming up

2980
01:42:25,590 --> 01:42:22,560
stick around for all of that

2981
01:42:34,360 --> 01:42:25,600
until next time take care

2982
01:42:45,430 --> 01:42:41,370
[Music]

2983
01:42:47,189 --> 01:42:45,440
so thanks for watching this video and if

2984
01:42:47,990 --> 01:42:47,199
it wasn't really a video but just an

2985
01:42:49,990 --> 01:42:48,000
audio

2986
01:42:51,669 --> 01:42:50,000
store it as a video i apologize but

2987
01:42:52,149 --> 01:42:51,679
there's more videos out there as well

2988
01:42:54,070 --> 01:42:52,159
but

2989
01:42:55,669 --> 01:42:54,080
please check out the skeptico website

2990
01:42:55,990 --> 01:42:55,679
you can see it here we cover a lot of

2991
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:56,000
different

2992
01:43:00,470 --> 01:42:57,920
stuff you might be interested in

2993
01:43:03,350 --> 01:43:00,480
relating to controversial science

2994
01:43:05,750 --> 01:43:03,360
and spirituality a lot of shows up there

2995
01:43:08,229 --> 01:43:05,760
over 350 of them are so

2996
01:43:09,030 --> 01:43:08,239
all free all available for downloads so

2997
01:43:10,770 --> 01:43:09,040
do